Q: What is a T.I.F.
A: Tax Incremental Finance
How does it work? Does it cost more money in the long run? What is so special about it? Why don't we just bond instead?
A TIFF bond is similar to a regular bond in that terms are set up such as a time commitment..20 yr or 30 yr bond.
The difference between the two are that a 20 yr bond /30 yr bond is just what it is.. a 20 yr or 30 yr bond.
A TIF bond CAN be paid-off sooner than its intended life... ie can be paid off in lets say 11 years and without penalty. You can think of it like making an extra mortgage payment at the end of the year, which helps bring down interest payments.
A TIF bond usually starts with very low payments in years 1-3 where as a regular bond would be spread out over life of bond.
Yes Doug is correct in that TIF bonds carry a little bit higher interest rate however its initial low payments and the early pay-off clause make it a winner in the long run. It is true that the TIF bond must be successful in bringing in business to realize the savings.
Also, The state of New Hampshire unlike many other states does not have the power to give tax breaks to companies to try and attract them to our state and its usually a "quality of life" issue that brings companies here. The TIF is one tool that we do have to attract businesses.
Where I think many get confused about TIF's are that they think that these businesses that are attracted, some how get a tax break or benefit from these TIF bonds where in fact the benefit they get is in Infrastructure improvements and in our case the widening of Manchester Rd to make it more commuter and business friendly.
Also with a TIF bond, and with permission from schools and state and county, these other government entities can decide to not take their portion of the local property tax, so that their portion can be used to help pay-off the TIF bond. For example in our TIF district, the school portion of their taxes would not go to schools but to help pay-off the bond instead. Makes sense because businesses don't send kids to schools. After the bonds are paid-off- these businesses would then be helping off set our residential/commercial mix and help offset and lower residential tax burdens.
A regular bond would do neither.
Lets remember that we already have water and sewer down Manchester rd and we have available lots that can be built upon. By creating a better roadway system we help attract business and bring those roadways from failure. Our TIF would only go to making the roadway improvements and would not go to private businesses to help them build their own buildings ( which is what the video that Doug provided says that is what that particular town did) This is an important fact that must be known.
Tax payers float the TIF bond for roadway improvements
Businesses that build new or additional buildings in the TIF district only will have portions of their taxes be paid to pay-off the bond. At no time will taxpayer money go to private business to help them build their buildings. ( all TIF are not created equally). The first three years are very low interest payments ( we have intial money in fund balance to get us started without raising any taxes) and in three years we should be in a better economy.
With success, we can pay this bond off quickly and bring commercial business taxes into the town, bring jobs to our community and help lower our taxes.
These are the two differences between the TIF and regular type bonding. Hope this shes some light to some and would love to hear feedback from others.
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40 comments:
So if I read this correctly and we do the TIFF, but then no business immediately locates in this area then the taxpayer in Derry is on the hook to pay these TIFF bonds until such business actually locates there.
So it is a roll of the dice with us betting on the fact that road improvements will be the big key factor in getting businesses to build in that area.
I really have to question whether it is the road/traffic situation which is keeping businesses from developing on the available parcels along Manchester road. I think there are many more factors at play here and I'm not sure the Field of Dreams - "If we build it they will come" thinking is going to hold true in this situation.
Not to kick the hornets nest here, but if Exit 4A was to be a reality then I might see spending the money to widen Manchester Road as it would likely be much more attractive to businesses. Without it I don't think this is a wise investment. At least not at this time. That area is not convenient to either Exit 4 or Exit 5.
BC - Why do you find "its initial low payments and the early pay-off clause make it a winner in the long run."? Why is that worth the extra cost?
What you are not seeming to get is that this is a general obligation of the taxpayers. It doesn't matter what pocket you put the money in, the payments for the bond (TIF or otherwise) come from the taxpayers.
"It is true that the TIF bond must be successful in bringing in business to realize the savings." That is true of any bond and any investment. If you invest in stupid stuff and there is no "profit", no financing device makes a difference.
"the school portion of their taxes would not go to schools but to help pay-off the bond instead." And where might the money to run the schools come from then? Again this is a shell game. It all comes from Derry taxpayers no matter is you pretend you have sequestered funds from one neighborhood or another. You are digging holes in the ocean. It all runs together.
Are you seriously suggesting when you say "A regular bond would do neither." that a regular bond that promotes business development has different effects than a TIF?
BC Thank you for explaining your view of TIFs. My opinion of them as a bad deal for Derry is unchanged. You seem to be confusing TIFs which are a particular financing vehicle with Business Development (which I strongly favor).
Doug,
How many businesses are sending kids to school? This is with the schools blessings that they defer school portion of taxes in the TIFF only dist. In the end, they (commercial pays a bigger % into our schools). No shell game. You want people to believe that local government is doing a dis-service to the taxpayers because that is your MO.
Also if you and I bought seperate homes in Derry for $250,000 each and my interest was 5% and yours was 4% both set up for 30 years, yet I pay off my note in 12 years, WHo ends up paying more Doug??
Same thing applies with TIF vs Reg Bond.
anon 10:03
Remember that old saying
"nothing ventured nothing gained"
BC and DJN,
Based on your point-counterpoint discussion, and as a casual observer, I am inclined to agree with BC on his TIF analysis.
First and foremost, I drive that stretch of route 28 regularly. It needs to be widened to assist with current traffic. Throwing out the
4A dead horse, this is Derry's best alternate avenue in and out of Derry, and I do believe "if you build it, they will come". Better traffic flow = Better traffic counts = Better business opportunity.
Second, I recognize taking the future businesses 'school portion' taxes to pay off the TIF early won't have an impact on the residential/commercial base in the short term. However, this is long term planning and in the long term, the benefit of the future businesses property tax is there.
Lastly, just to compare/contrast on a smaller scale, there was many discussions about the extension of Manning St (Courthouse Lane). The study done stated there would be minimal value to completing this, yet the Town went through with the project. To date, I would say that study was spot on! There has been little value to that investment. Conversely, the land along Manchester Road has huge potential with some investing from the Taxpayers. I am much more confident in that investment and subsequent reward.
DJN writes:
"What you are not seeming to get is that this is a general obligation of the taxpayers. It doesn't matter what pocket you put the money in, the payments for the bond (TIF or otherwise) come from the taxpayers."
Folks this illustrates that DJN is clearly against all investment...when it comes crunch time to actually LEAD, DJN will find an excuse to jump...he will find reason to be against everything.
He will even pretend to believe that the Attorney General of the State of NH is a person who cannot be trusted AND IS LESS QUALIFIED THAN JANET FAIRBANKS (!) to run an investigation of her political adversaries. And he does this with a straight face (!) with no absolutely no sweat equity at all in the community other than his cherished political realm.
A politician.
6:50
Welcome to the observation that DJN and his association are completely against investment in the future of Derry.
Tifs, Bonds, maintenance of the schools ( one of Derry’s foremost assets) services and infrastructure, anything where expenses placed today provide benefits in the future are off the table with Doug.
Recognize he is not alone. I have labeled then "Beans in the Bomb cellar," "Back to the Stoneage" reactionary’s. Doug just happens to more articulate than most.
Given the opportunity to preserve their lifestyle any investment in community improvement will never be worth the risk/expense.
I am glad that someone else in town can finally see DJN's true colors.
A politician? You bet.
Dear Politician,
No I can simply read. The AG's web site clearly spells out the responsibilities of the AGs office. Policing misbehavior by local officials is not in there. I also can read the town charter which says the Council can remove a member for "Misconduct". Therefore the LAW gives the monitoring of local official behavior to the Town Council. Which part of that don't you understand?
Also if you had read the rest of BCs discussion with me you would see that I indicated that I would favor infrastructure investment; our discussion is about TIFs as financial instruments to finance those investments. (I would favor those investments AFTER someone did a thorough investment analysis like any company would do before sinking millions into some project.)
10:56 I may agree with you on the investment to widen Manchester Road. Before I jumped in on that I'd like to know more about expected revenues and why the price tag has skyrocketed as prices for many other things decline. My discussion with BC is about a quaint financing mechanism known as a TIF which like a mortgage with a balloon allow politicians to have fun now and others years later pay a disproportionate amount of the payments.
Doug,
Do you always feel the need to dis-inform the public or do you just don't get it.
To equate the TIF bond with a mortgage with a balloon note is very mis-leading. The TIF bond does not say after the end of year 12 that the balance is due in full like you suggest in your last post.
you know it and I know it.
I think you would make a great propaganda specialist though.
how the heck can janet fairbanks conduct an investigation when she has made numerous public statements declaring "guilty" before her investigation even starts...role the film its all right there
she is also on very public record as being a close personal friend of maureen rose...its clear that she has to recuse herself and to do anything less would be an ethical violation and she would be subject to removal from office
the difference is that janet would be violating ethics in her fully public capacity
how pathetically ridiculous and very embarrassing to derry...its no wonder no businesses want to come here
Is there any analysis on the number and size of development lots in the Manchester Rd area? WHere can a citizen find this info? Has there been any calculations done by our tax assessors office on what the expected tax revenue to the town would be from various build outs of these available lots in this TIFF district - 25%, 50%, 75%, etc. and an analysis of how quickly we might hit those levels of build out. Then we could deal with at least some numbers in determining the payback scenarios on the financing proposed.
I am surprised that this information has not been requested by our councilors. If it has and it is actually available - someone please publish it or point to where it can be found.
Now BC, I have not gotten into personal attacks. Why do you and is it any wonder that your followers just make stuff up to attack me? Lacking the energy to dig out facts they just make up that I am against school building maintenance. (Wow where did that come from?)How many babies do I eat for breakfast? Come on guys let's get real. Are we going to have an intelligent conversation or fabricate sins of the other party? The latter may be amusing but honestly I have better things to do with my time.
BC regarding the balloon payment analogy, it's not a perfect analogy because the higher payments don't come all in one lump but rather we pay a premium for a bond that has two payment levels (subsidizing the early years at the expense of taxpayers later on.) This as we sit on a reserve fund that exceeds $10 million earning very little interest.
Yes 10:28 that's exactly what we need in combination with a breakout showing where the huge increase in cost is coming from. Armed with those pieces of information the councilors and the public can make informed decisions. At last someone else who works the numbers!!!
Doug Newell
11:03 who are you?
Let's all get out our TIF lawyer hats... TIF is complicated; that's why there really is such a thing as TIF lawyers (which I am not). It all depends on how the TIF plan is written, who's administering it and usually there's no transparency attached to it. There are 80 properties identified in the district in question. The tax revenues derived from the higher assessed values on these properties would be diverted from local taxing bodies and used to pay off costs that were bonded. A portion of the captured assessed value (CAV) is dedicated to the retirement of bonds and a portion of the CAV is dedicated to the operation and further development of the TIF district (as stated in the plan). No where in that video did it say that monies could be used for "brick and mortar", it said monies could be used for "infrastructure" which is true and under state law that encompasses everything from planning costs to sewer expansion and repair, demolition to acquisition and relocation, management fees, studies etc. etc. etc.
Why do you think developers love TIF districts? The proceeds from the sale of TIF bonds sold in the municipal securities market are used to finance development project costs. This results in substantial benefits to developers. First, the cost of borrowing to developers is substantially cheaper if the town sells securities to finance development rather than the developer having to go to the bank or capital markets for financing. TIF bonds provide substantial interest cost savings to developers because most of them are tax-exempt. But even when the town sells taxable TIF bonds, developers still receive substantial cost savings because the interest costs are still lower, and the terms of repayment are much more generous to developers than they would be without town assistance, providing for longer repayment periods, town funded escrow accounts, and additional credit enhancement.
TIF was originally created so that local municipal governments could issue bonds to finance infrastructure improvements, undertake land assembly, and provide incentives to lure private investment to blighted urban neighborhoods that show a pattern of LOSING VALUE. Clearly the 80 properties identified in the Manchester Road TIF is an area already growing in value (or am I mistaken?) therefore you're capturing the natural growth of the property tax revenue stream and diverting it away from other local taxing bodies. When other local taxing bodies don’t receive the natural growth in revenues from already appreciating areas now under TIF designation, they are paying for economic growth that would have likely occurred anyway. The revenue they forego is used instead to subsidize TIF development.
At minimum we should:
* Require more detailed and user-friendly reporting of redevelopment agreements proposed and approved for TIF districts so that the public understands what subsidies are being drawn from TIF funds, who received those funds, what type of development will or has taken place and who benefited from that development
* Require municipalities to hold annual public meetings for the duration of the district, at which they would report annual TIF expenditures and updates on the implementation of redevelopment agreements.
Anyone have a copy of the Ash Street Project TIF Plan?
Saw an article in News yesterday about some rezoning proposals. One in particular caught my eye - rezoning the propert around Frost Farm to General Commercial. I took a look today online to see what property was there. Previously I had assumed that the Farm and Property around the Farm were owned by the state and or set aside as conservation lands. Zoning this historic site General Commercial seems crazy.
What is of even more interest is that the privately held property of 45 acres with hundreds of feet of frontage on Rte 28 right next to Frost Farm has been assessed at less than $45,000! Less than $1,000 per acre of commercial land!!! What gives? Is there some type of easement on this property that would devalue it so much or is this a case of tax revenue being left on the table?
Here's an observation to be considered. While just having social conversations with diverse citizen's there is a feeling that is rising to the top of conversations. I'm not for one side or the other, so let's get that established. I'm just stating the frusteration that is being felt by most....
ALL councilors should step down and start a new beginning. There is so much distrust, disfunction..this group will never come together on any one subject.
25/6/09 10:28 AM makes a strong point right there.This disfunction has taking away from their original job at hand...keeping this town front and center. It's a very sad state of affairs.
All analysis is subjective. Both Brian and Doug present their arguments as if they are objective, they are not.
That is why one person can say a Tif is better than a bond, or a bond is better than a Tif.
Brian feels the ability to pay off the debt early and the low initial payments have value. And that investing money in widening the road will bring in business.
Doug argues those attributes are not valuable. And, he argues now is not the time to invest, at least not in the widening of the road.
They both present their arguements well, they are both sensear. They simply have different opinions.
Sometimes the facts don't make decisions any easier.
I agree that widening of the road would help commuters. And would like to add my opinion.
I feel their is value in making people happier. When people have less stress, they act differently. And sometimes that difference can be acted out in spending money.
I am more of a social science person; "Environment influences behavior, regardless."
I am sure their are plenty of studies to back my argument.
This is why almost every idea I have presented has a goal of creating a positive environment.
Nick Arancio
anon 3:01,
Very good post. The only thing I should add here and emphasize is on your comment that taxes are diverted from the natural growth streams. It is important to note that the base line of taxes that are already produced will continue to be used thae way they are now.. any add-ons to current buildings, or assessed values or new values would be used to pay down debt. Thats a win-win for everyone involved because it does not take from one area to be distributed to another like most think.
Nick,
I have not argued that "now is not the time to invest". However given the current economic climate, if the Manchester Road TIF anticipates development in the next few years I would question those assumptions. Unfortunately for us all, I believe that we are not at the bottom yet regarding the economy and therefore few companies will be in expansion mode. I do wonder why the costs of that project have risen enormously as costs of labor and materials do not seem to be following.
Mostly my point was that if we decide that the expansion is a good thing, we should use a regular (and lower interest rate) 20 year bond.
As always Nick, thanks for the civil post.
Doug
BC this concept of "natural growth streams' is nonsense. If TIF district is A and the rest of the town is B and paying off the bond is C and all other town and school expenses are D, then tax revenues from A+B must = C+D. Package it anyway you want, the equation must equal and the taxpayers are legally on the hook for the bond regardless of whether there is $1 of development or not. There is no free lunch. There is little or no benefit to the TIF bond vs a regular bond especially given its higher interest rate.
BC also you said "any add-ons to current buildings, or assessed values or new values would be used to pay down debt"... trust me the debt will be paid down by the taxpayers regardless of the add-ons, etc. (if any) or the bond holders will see the town in court. You imply that the growth funds the bonds, no the taxpayers are the ones with the legal obligations.
Doug,
I don't know why it does not register with you? First off we all know that either bond comes from the taxpayers. Your 20 year bond is just that. Taxpayers will pay X for 20 years. Can we agree on that?
2) In the TIF district building "A" is assessed at $300,000. 300K at $25.53=$7659 in Property taxes. Of that, $2643 is paid to the town with the rest going to schools, county and state.
Now building "A" decides to expand and now the building is worth 400K.
Thats 100K of assessed value over the base. This additional 100K of value pays its $8.81 in town taxes for police, fire, pw and other town services and most of the rest ( at the very least $13.31 x 100K) goes to pay down the debt on the TIF bond.
Its that simple! Now we all know that marketing needs to happen and businesses needs to come or expand to make it sucessful.
On the bond only side, Its all taxpayers paying for 20 years.
Again, Doug i go back to what i said earlier- We both buy houses for 200k and you pay 4% interest and I pay 5%. ( you would say, see it costs me more right out of the gate) If I pay my mortgage in 12 years and you pay yours in 20, Who paid more Doug??
This is not rocket science everyone. Doug wants to take the easy position of saying he would do nothing but if he had to choose, we would make the taxpayers pay for 20 years. I'm saying that we take the concept of bonding, take the first three years of very low payments to get the process going at min costs, let the new additional values help us pay down the debt sooner and in the end the taxpayers have more comm/industrial base to offset its high residential which will pay going forward.
Otherwise, folks if you want to do nothing and gain nothing- Doug and his side are the people you want running this town.
BC You have now retreated from your "natural growth streams" to discussing the concept of a 10 year vs 20 year bond. OK we can discuss that. I absolutely agree that "taxpayers" will pay less in total interest on a 10 year obligation that a 20 year one. Why don't you take that to its logical conclusion? We have the money to pay for the widening in cash! If you drew down the unreserved balance isn't there over $6.9 million there earning almost no interest? I am not recommending that (although with more investigation I might), my point is the serious observation that we might want to spread the cost of a project over its useful life so that the people getting the benefit are also the ones paying the bills.
By the way I'm not speaking for "my side" I'm speaking for me. Don't drag other into this.
We all understand that business development has the potential to lower taxes for the rest of us.Please don't talk down to me. What we are discussing is the arcane features of TIFs vs. regular bonds vs. cash.
I'll jump in the middle -- It's nearly impossible to measure the costs and benefits of tax increment financing since projecting anticipated revenues, growth in EAV and benefits of TIF is more of an educated guess than a science. No one can predict what will happen in the future to change the value of land, patterns of development or tax rates. A careful analysis of existing market conditions, proposed development, current tax rates and assessed values are all used by TIF consultants to project future increment.
If TIF is generated and NO additional development or existing expansion occurs...Doug wins.
If Tif is generated and MIT - Amgen and Cisco come and Sanmina expands.....Brian wins.
If Tif is generated and MIT - Amgen and Cisco come and Sanmina expands and that would've happened REGARDLESS of the TIF...Doug wins.
If Tif is generated and Walmart - The Fairways II and a Homeless Center comes....Nobody wins.
Also, you have to factor in the impact on town departments/services, schools, libraries etc. since in many cases they would need to expand services to accommodate development in a TIF district.
A question for either BC or DJN (or anyone that knows):
In light of the recent Charter Commission results, and future electees; Come March 2010 will either the TIF or Bond for these projects be on the ballot?
8:25 I do not believe so. The previous Charter Commission had proposed a revision that would have given the voters the ability to vote on bonds but that recommendation was narrowly defeated.
The new Charter Commission that was just established by the voters has alot of work to do and their recommendations (whatever they are) will not be in effect by March 2010.
Of course the council can put non-binding questions on the ballot but that's not going to happen with this council. BC do you agree?
Doug and 8:25,
Yes I would agree. We are an elected body that represents the people of Derry. To put onto a ballot, we would have to wait until next March unless we decide on a special election. Remember that it takes 5 of the seven to approve a bond ( a super majority.) Public hearings Must take place so that people such as your self and others would have an opportunity to speak on the subject and then of course you are represented by 4 councilors, your dist councilor and 3 at large councilors who you can discuss with them as much as you want. * note that you and all 4 councilors together at same time could not discuss town business unless in public meeting.
Hope that makes sense!
7:04 Just to clarify, I might "win" the discussion but, since I'm a taxpayer just like everyone else, I lose (so do you). You are right all investment decisions are estimates of the unknown future. If the decision makers have really done their homework then they are "best estimates".
By the way, if presented with the right set of facts I might be an enthusiastic supporter of widening Manchester Road. If those facts exist I don't believe they have been either updated (to reflect the horrendous economy) or well publicized.
BC - what happened to my post about the Rte 28 property next to Robert Frost Farm.
45 acres of General Commercial property - appraised value $432,000assessed at only $3,887?
What Gives!! Both of these are low - but the assessed value is ridiculous. This is prime commercial real estate with hundreds of feet of frontage on Rte 28.
I wonder how long the town has been losing its shirt in tax money on this (and other properties).
You are right - there will be discussion about the rezoning of the Frost Farm area!!!
The $6.9 million in the unreserved fund that DJN mentions seems to be Derry's best kept secret.
It striking to me that DJN and his crew have not proposed giving that back to the taxpayers. It is afterall our money. That should be the obvious postion of any taxpayer group.
Rather, DJN seems to suggest that he might very well support spending that fund (our money) on a project in which he, himself, acknowledges no guarrentee of a return.
So in the end the ADT would leave us with what?
Brian,
Based on your discussion, development in Derry can commence sometime between next NEVER and when Hell freezes over as the parliamentary pirouette plays out? Great, Derry needs a better organized ability to get nothing done.
BC,
After doing some more research on the land near Frost Farm I see that it is likely being taxed under "Current Use" exemption. The 45 acres in question evidently is set up as being set aside for Forestry and therefore the landowner pays a much much lower tax on the land.
I can understand the thinking behind Current Use in that it encourages people to keep large tracts of land undeveloped. However there appears to be no permanent restrictions/easements on these lands and the owner can at any time decide to sell for development. The additional fee due at that time is a one time 10% assessment against the true value of the property.
My question is whether Current Use is really good for the town?
Seems to me that savvy real estate developers will just "park" these lots in Current Use until the market is ripe for development and then sell off or develop.
Is there data to back up that Current Use actually is good for the town?
anon 10:39,
Property rights are the cornerstone of what this country is all about. The question about current use, which depends on who you ask, or how its zoned, will be different in each case. Also Current Use is a state RSA issue that towns are required to follow. Any parcel over 10+ acres could qualify. You are correct in that the cost to take out of current use is 10%. But in the end, its the property owner who has the right to do what he wants with his own property, subject to zoning requirements.
Just re-read the opening section of the Town Master Plan "Vision for the Future of Derry" (last updated in 2002)
Seems like we should dust that off and read it at the beginning of every Town Council meeting - and work towards the goals set forth in it!
Here's the link to the Master Plan
http://www.derry.nh.us/Pages/DerryNH_Planning/master2002/townwewant.pdf
Wow 8:39 that was a "3 bank shot" to arrive at an attack on me. Very creative but a real stretch.
1. Reserve funds are not a secret if you pay attention to Frank Child's regular presentations to the council.
2. I didn't favor spending it but offered it as a logical conclusion to BC's point.
3. Yes, it is our money but giving it all back to the taxpayers would give us audit issues. We have been watching that balance even if you haven't. It has grown and is in the auditor recommendation range but I would agree that it should not be allowed to exceed that range.(use it to reduce taxes or pay off bonds early, etc.)
4. Neither widening Manchester Road nor any other investment gives you a guaranteed real return. Even government bonds might be eaten away by inflation or subject to default. As they say the only guarantees are death and taxes. (I’m usually against both.)
My taxes are not going down no matter what type of loan you use.
My hope is that the road stays as is and that no more co., stores or restraunts moves in. I drive Manchester Rd all the time and I never get stuck on it for more than 5 to 8 minutes and that's nothing compared to the traffic I wait in when I'm in Nashua, Manchester, Salem and Boston.
For those of you who want growth move out of Derry. Where is it written that a town needs to grow to become a better and cheaper place to live?
We could lose 500 students in our school system and our taxes would still go up because the job of goverment small and big is to just spend and spend and grow and grow.
I will be out of here in 2 year no matter what kind of loss I take on my house. I need to live in a less congested town a place like Derry used to be about 10 years ago.
I read the bakery located downtown will be moving to a strip mall.
Like I have stated many times before, forget anyone shopping downtown, people want to go to strip malls"
Lets stop thinking about wasting any more $$$ downtown.
Let the market rule and you will find economical office space located downtown, all on its own and no vacancies too.
23/7/09 2:12 PM
Downtown is failing because
1.there in no orginized merchants association,where business owners are united together.
2. there is absolutely NO INPUT or SUPPORT coming from the Chamber of Commerce Directors office encouraging business's in the downtown area. There is ZIP
coming from that office! When was the last time she entered a business downtown and shook the hand of an owner?
3. the town's Health Dept. P.T. guy does not 'work' with business's he just demands, making it harder for owners to expand their services.I don't blame the bakery for moving. The attitude in Derry is at it's lowest. Even little Windham is showing more productivity (gaining new businesses)! Let's learn something from our neighbors folks. It's not always about the parking or 'high taxes'!
2:24
You can do all those things you suggest however it does not mean even one more person will ever shop downtown.
Cut the losses, stop wasting time and money trying to make downtown work.
Its old thinking and an idea that will not work in the 21st century!!
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