Today's headlines in the UL today confirms what Derry's planners had planed about 10 years ago. With run away population growth in Derry in the mid 80's and early 90's and tax rates adjusting higher to accommodate this growth, something needed to get done to keep everything in a "manageable" manner.
Derry's population has DECREASED over the last 5 years. Down 455 people or -1.3% from years 2002-2007. ( second in loss only to Nashua )
While surrounding communities such as Hudson, Windham, Auburn and Londonderry ADD more people. Hudson added 1375, Windham added 1262,
It is interesting to note that the largest communities, Manch, Nashua,Portsmouth and Derry all lost population.
The articles go on to say that in some communities like Hudson feel that things could just explode over there, More Housing, More Roads, More Taxes, will be needed to keep up with service demands.
Our GMO has been instrumental in keeping our populations in check and it is finally paying off. Towns exploding, must now spend more in a bad economy. Tough choices ahead for those towns won't make life any easier there.
Another interesting note was that from 2000-2006 New Hampshire's 55-64 age group grew by 41% 65 plus rose 10% and 45-54 grew 18% and the biggest loses were 35-44 -6% and 25-34 was -3%. The article goes on to say Long term trends could have impacts on communities.
So, we have some mixed news in this area. The spenders who spend on roadways for less traffic or spending taxpayers dollars for a private group to build a bike path or to tax shift burden on others while giving breaks to some may looks good. Think of the long term affects that could affect our communities.
I mean I liked Santa when I was young, but there comes a time when reality needs to set in.
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50 comments:
You don't think the crushing taxes have anything to do with Derry's population decline? If you want to see real decline wait until the state funding reduction kicks in. Last one out, turn off the lights!
It would be good if more people left town. The property taxes will still have to be paid on the empty houses and there will be less kids in the schools to pay for!
I can't wait...
Anon 3:32,
That all well and good thinking IF the school district does not increase its budget. School populations have been shrinking but school budgets keep increasing. In some Mass communities the school pops fell so low, they were selling school buildings they did not need.
Maybe someday.....
Yea, BC suggest that to Brenda. Maybe sell Barka and put the class size back to levels from about 1990. See how that flies. Can I be there to watch?
Everyone should watch the school board meetings ... watch your tax rate continue to rise with the continued spending.
anon 8:24,
Its the citizens voting on the budget every year that control spending. Unlike the council which votes its bottom line. The school budget has meetings that taxpayers can attend and they vote in the bottom line.
There's always an excuse for why the school budget goes up, teach contracts, aide contracts, Pinkerton, etc. The list goes on and on. Remember when the school board promised that if we voted to build Barka School we would not to build any additional buidings, and here we are again with building specifically for kindergarten. They can't even keep their own promises. They appeal every year to special interests and get the vote out. If the school numbers are going down as you say BC, why are we building additional classrooms. Maybe its time that a more fiscally responsible group of individuals are elected to the school board.
Brian, I appreciate this forum you have created. I do however think you are so off base at times it embarrasses me to think you are my council representative.
You may think this first point trivial, but it is not. Your grammar and spelling is shameful. It reflects poorly on yourself and upon the community you are supposed to represent. I have on occasion seen you called on this by other readers. Yet you continue to flirt with illiteracy . Apparently, you are not equipped to understand the importance of this point at its face. Are you comfortable letting the world think that like the person who eats with their mouth open that you just don't care how bad it looks? Brian, people form judgments about others on matters far less obvious than elementary english proficiency. If you won't correct this for yourself then do it for your district. And if that is not motivation enough, then stop posting all together.
Secondly, I have donated to the bike path. It is my understanding that it is town owned property. I also know that a group of volunteers have stepped up and devoted time and effort to see this paved. Why then do you insist on coloring this effort as a waste of taxpayer money? Downtown Derry needs all the help it can get....NOW! These type trails throughout the country have been very successful in attracting users. I think the town is getting a deal having citizens working to make it a reality. You are missing a win-win no brainer. I fear this will only become clear to you after it is completed and you see the steady flow of users it will draw.
anon 11:34,
I'm sorry. I have a bad habit of rushing my posts and do not always look them over for grammar corrections. I will slow down and do a better job in the future. Thanks for pointing this out for me.
Also, I don't have any issues with the bike path itself. I think it is a great project and will benefit the downtown. My issue is the fact that taxpayers money is being used for this bike path.
Now if we could just get Coyle and his parrot Janet to leave!
I've seen many times that the bike path is going to help the downtown. Exactly how much business is the bike path suppose to bring. I don't really believe that many businesses will be benefited by it. If we want to use taxpayer funds to build the commercial tax base in Derry, let's focus on water and sewer to Route 28.
We already have a partially paved bike path. It has been completed for at least 5 years, most likely a lot longer.
How much business is generated from the existing path?
How many more users will come to downtown businesses by paving an existing path that could be being used right now and for the past century?
I still do not understand why people can't walk, run, or ride on a dirt path in Derry. Has anyone that reads this blog ever visited Auburn? It is literally filled with hundreds of DIRT paths which are occupied by hundreds of people every day, year round. Is Derry too good to have dirt paths? Are we trying to keep up with our rich neighbors to the South?
Come on people, paving the existing path WILL NOT increase the number of patrons in downtown Derry.
Here's another question for the path supporters: Where exactly in the downtown are the "bike corrals" located for current users, or future users, to lock their bikes up?
Does anyone think these things through? I have to agree with Brian that it would be a waste to use any taxpayer money to fund this project. If private donors want to waste their money, then so be it.
Celtic,
Well said! Also keep in mind the price tag was at around $360,000 to pave this 2 miles with a majority of the council voting to give them $225,000 of taxpayers money towards this total. However we all know now that Asphalt has skyrocketed in cost. Now that 360 is more like 480K. What do you think about that?
I don't understand Brian.
How on one hand the town adminsitrator talks about cut backs due to FY09 budget, yet the council agrees to support paving a 2 mile stretch of bike path? What's more critical, keeping town services or paving a bike path for a small percentage of tax payers? I'm certainly not going to use it and neither will the elderly in town. How about some consideration for others not just for a certain group.
anon 9:29,
As the only councilor who voted NO to using 225K of taxpayers money on this bike path. I agree with you 100%. Let the bike path group raise the money on their own without taxpayers footing the bill.
BC, I agree with you. As Celtic said the few people who use the bike path now do not generate any significant business downtown, if they generate any at all. Its much more important to fund public services than pave this path.
As I see it, it is up to the Town Council to come up with ways to draw people aka customers into Derry. If a paved trail can draw crowds then it is a potential revenue stream. It is then up to a business to find out what to sell to those people.
I use to ride my bike on a paved path which use to be a railroad track. I think it goes from Lexington Ma to Somerville MA and goes by the name "Freedom trail."
I would not have ridden it if it was not paved. Many people used roller blades which don't work on dirt. There was always tons of people there.
I believe this trail should be publicly funded. And that it will draw people into Derry. And that those people are potential customers. When I ran for Town Council I also purposed having a Farmers Market placed near this trail. My website provided more details than I will get into here.
Nick Arancio
I offer the following thoughts as a citizen of Derry and NOT as a member of the Derry Rail Trail BOD. Nor should any opinion I offer below be interpreted or represented as the collective opinion of the DRTA BOD.
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In response to the shall I say, uninformed comments made below that cast the Rail Trail or it's funding in a less than favorable light I offer the following comments.
Brian, I find your written comments in this regard characteristically sloppy. The council voted on this matter. You were the sole dissenting vote. Yet you have on more than one occasion purposely or unwittingly, in effect insisted upon stirring up small opposition by expressing your dissatisfaction with the votes outcome and resulting partial town funding. I would suggest to you that at this late stage, you would better serve your community and ironically your own district, by accepting the nearly unanimous vote and resulting appropriation. Furthermore, I would suggest that henceforth you consider placing all your energy into unqualified support of the private funding efforts going forward. I ask you, to what positive end do your ex post facto gripes serve?
This project currently exists as essentially an undeveloped linear park. This project is 100% community owned. To the extent that a group of private citizens and it's supporters have stepped to the plate to offer their effort, expertise, vision and capital in developing this unique "town owned" regional asset, you should now subjugate your distinctly minority public funding opinion to the only remaining pressing priority of gettin' it done.
Now, onto the other comments and questions raised below.
Firstly, I can not imagine how one does not see that a trail such as this has benefits that far and away exceed the relatively small cap-ex required to make it a reality.
In light of all the supporting documentation presented in town council meetings, through local news coverage and the multitude of successful trails all around us and across the country, it is as compelling a "win-win project" that i have ever come in contact with. For the sake of brevity I will attempt to put a few bullet points out there for you to consider before commenting on this in the future. By so doing, i also hope to address some concerns raised in the posts below:
- This trail will provide a tremendous new venue for other area "not for profit" organizations to conduct fund raising efforts.
- The view expressed below, that the trails utilization will be limited to a few....this view is completely at odds with the facts. We have concluded and can document that this trail will appeal to a full spectrum age and use demographic......period! Be it used for a run, a jog, a ride, a walk or a stroll with a newborn, its breath of appeal is broad, obvious and undeniable.
- It is true that the costs of asphalt have risen, but this group is committed to raising the necessary funds. We have generated great success thus far and will not rest until it is fully funded and beyond.. It will be fully funded. (BTW, have you written your check yet? Google the web site Derry Rail Trail.org and use the paypal account if that is easier.)
- The Windham trail was once dirt, as Derry's is currently. I do not have the numbers but just ask around or better yet go down to the Windham trail and see the number of users present on any given day. Fortuitously, Derry's trail northern end terminates smack dab in the center of town. Explain how that is bad for business?
- Is the trail going to spawn enough traffic to solve our long term fiscal problems? Nope. No one ever suggested this to my knowledge. But it is a step in the right direction that further distinguishes and enhances Derry's appeal as a community and DESTINATION? ( there's my favorite word again) Additionally, will some businesses generate top-line that would otherwise not have occurred? Yup, plenty of documentation available that bears this out.
We are not reinventing the wheel here. Real estate values respond favorably, school systems love these trails as curriculum enhancements, conservation commissions enjoy enormous boosts in volunteers recruitment and funding endeavors etc...etc... etc.. Plenty of precedents bear these contentions out all around us and the particulars are available upon request.
- As for Bike racks? Well, i can assure you that the folks that are working on this projects nuts and bolts have not missed this rather obvious point ....so take a breath, breathe easy.
- Public health benefits are huge. There is an obesity epidemic in this country for example. To the extent that this project will provide those people that want to take care of themselves a great venue to do so, reactively or proactively, it is invaluable. We have enjoyed resounding support from many that work locally in the health care profession.
I could go on and on. Suffice it to say that we are in a position to strengthen our entire community by providing it a new asset that few other towns have the luxury to even consider. In the scheme of things, it's costs represents a drop in the bucket. Given how funds have been squandered in the past, I would hope that dissenters are smart enough to recognize that some investments pay dividends well in excess of their costs. This is one such project. This project will strengthen our towns community fabric by providing it's people a place to enjoy a beautiful linear park. It will also enhance our community's competitive standing which in the end makes other worthwhile causes that much more affordable. This as opposed to the money being wasted on legal opinions and other none productive intangible deployments of OUR community funds.
So in conclusion, I hope this post clearly articulates some of the attributes this project offers. There are many more which are readily available on the web site referenced above.
Brian, thank you for placing the web page on your blog. But simply put, get over the public funding piece and get with the program. What's done is done. This trail will be paved. The town owns the trail. The trail is being partially funded with Derry citizens money for the benefit of a broad cross section of it's population.
You know how I feel about the hare-brained non-sense that has gone on in this town. We often see eye to eye in this regard. This project is something that is good for Derry. I hope at the very least you give some thought to what I have expressed here before spouting off again about this projects funding. It truly is of no value and is counter productive. Rest assured, I for one as a citizen will not tolerate what reads as self serving politicization and will not hesitate in responding....and some.
Respectfully submitted,
Carl V. Accardo
Even at $225,000 the bike path idea at this time seems a waste when there is talk of cuts in future public services. We're talking about something that could be used if we're lucky for 5 months a year here. Unless one would like to add lights which would open up another can of worms there. Don't get me wrong, a bike path is a great idea but in better times. If we rush to finish the project, we're going to end up paying 2X what the project is worth.
BC - I agree with Carl and usually I'm at a loss when trying to figure out your thought process. You were the only one voting against the rail trail, you were the only one voting against the elderly exemption, you were the only one voting against paving Manning Street - is everybody else out to lunch except you? We live in a community with a hefty tax rate and with that all we can afford is education and basic town services and the frustrating thing is; it doesn't have to be that way. Can you agree that with the loss of residents its a good thing we didn't add that firestation? Can you agree that with the declining population in town it was a waste of 1 million plus dollars for a study on 4A? Can you agree that with the declining population we could perhaps at least exercise the idea of cutting some positions? A firefighter? A police officer? Anyone? No, I didn't think so. I fail to see your reasoning or the vision you have for the town. Every now and then Brian, you may win the fight but with the town in the shape it's in you're certainly losing the battle; that you have to see.
Anon 4:54,
Thanks for your input. Times in Derry are going to get very tough. In other posts I have said that the projects are worthwhile projects but we should not be looking at the taxpayers paying for these items. It will send a wrong message, I believe. As far as 4A goes. I have been a councilor and approved some money to finish the studies, I have NOT voted to spend 1 million ( not even close)
As far as cutting positions. The tax cap will end up doing this automatically. You will see as time goes by, budgets will be extremely tight and the workforce will suffer. We should be planning and preparing for this in the next few years. I could easily been labeled as wanting the bike path and Manning Street to "enhance" my neighborhood if i voted yes. people are just going to say what they want to say. I happen to think we are heading for problems and we should be careful of the money we are spending.
I know this is ot but...Why doesn't the town buy the property beside the opera house and use it for additional parking; between the Benson building, the opera house and the Firehall Pub, if it ever gets sold, it would come in handy and the property next to Backmans that's empty - maybe a good place for a farmers market and once the bike path gets going who knows; maybe the downtown will become a destination...it's a start.
anon 7:06,
Good suggestion. The owner of those two lots may want to keep them and not sell. However I like your idea!!!
Another beautiful summer's night, my windows were down and the music was playing. As I was stopped at the set of lights I gazed over to my right to see nothing but grungy looking guys out on the sidewalk watching the traffic going by smoking their cigarettes! Now, do you think that 'those' who might use the bike path an patronize our downtown will feel safe never mind welcomed with those thugs looking at them? Get real. I would love to see the downtown as a cozy 'preppy place to be' but that's not what we've got! Those bikes take up parking and who the heck would walk by the place...As I continued threw the lights I thought...why the heck can't anyone do something about that place. Oh wait...maybe Ms.Thomson could pay them a visit. Has even the Health Inspector been in there?
BC I respect you for your stand against the rail trail (and might have voted that way myself given the opportunity) however it is inconsistent with your other votes. Voting against any cuts in staffing but waiting for the tax cap to do the unpleasant work will hardly get you a Profiles in Courage Award. You seem to find consolation in the fact that we blew maybe $500,000 on a useless 4A study not $1,000,000. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you.
With proper management, the workforce does not have to "suffer" nor do the taxpayers. Let's start by getting other towns to pay their share of dispatch. No pain to employees, no pain to taxpayers. Let's stop blowing money on 4A. No pain, no pain. Let's hire the lower bidding attorneys for the town. No pain, no pain. Let's not do a TIFF to widen roads as the population declines. No pain to employees, none to taxpayers. See it's really not that hard. Hell, you would have enough left over to do a rail trail if that made the town a more pleasant place to live.
Lets forget the idea of a bustling downtown area.
It will not happen because in the 21st century people shop at strip malls etc.
Downtown areas are an old fashioned way of doing business.
Besides a bustling downtown does not lower my taxes one bit and would only create more traffic and additional costs associated with it.
Now the school budget.
It will alway rise because of self interests most people have.
They vote for increased budgets because their kids are in the school system.
When they graduate the parents then move to a town where schools are not as good, taxes are low and leave the bill they created for the remaining Derry residents.
This goes on year after year.
The only way to stop it is to have a lousy school system, this will keep people with children away from Derry and we can send our children to a private school with the tax money saved over a short period of time.
We moved here 38 years ago when there were 9000 residents and one red light.
Please do not make fun of my grammar. Spell check gets me by for the most part.
Good grammar and spelling never made a difference in my ability to squeeze a buck into two bucks. I don't care if BC has good diction, etc or not.
Back to your original post-- if planners saw this population decline many years ago, why did we build Barka School? There was no mention of population decline at the time. Who was not being candid with the voters?
I apoligize but Blogger is having an issue posting comments. Hopefully it will be fixed soon so that we can all read your comments here.
From your original thread..."The spenders who spend on roadways"... BC does this mean you have changed your opinion on the TIFF? Or is it just roadways you disapprove of?
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anon 6:55,
I can't speak for the school people on this issue however there was a report done years ago called the "Garrish Reports". In these reports it indeed said that there would be less children coming into the school systems in years 2004-2010. In fact, a big enough decline to eliminate portable classroom. However, I believe (and this is my opinion only) That the future trends years out show small increases in school populations and so the thought was to build now for future years.
I'm not defending or being critical of those who made the decisions, I'm just telling it the way I see it.
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Tired Old Blue Collar Worker - what you say makes sense. However you leave out the issue of getting our money's worth. What the self interested school backers don't understand is that you can spend a lot and still deliver a poor education. New buildings never taught a child anything. It's all about getting and keeping the best teachers. The system does not encourage that. Why should they try? You can either send your kids to Derry schools or you can pay taxes for nothing and pay for private school.
Strike fear in the hearts of mediocre school administrators and teachers union bosses. Say the word "vouchers".
Anon 6:55 ... the school board knew that based on a population model that the school numbers were going to go down. Yet, they wanted the Barka School anyway. The same goes for the addition to Hood, etc. Guess we know who isn't be honest with the voters ...
BC:
I hate to burst everyone's bubble here, but two weeks ago a whole new wave of portable classrooms were brought to the Derry schools.
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Speaking of Barka school, have you ever taken a good look at the driveway layout.
It's a fiasco when students are coming in and out on buses.
The buses can't make the turns if there is anything in the way, its that tight.
They added 2 additional personal for these times. The stand at the corners and stop traffic so the buses can leave or enter.
It comes down to either a bus or a car is able to go one at a time.
East-gate is also very narrow and with snowbanks buses have to go one at a time.
Great engineering at its best.
In reference to 8:16am How can this be justified? More attention should be given to the school side of our tax bills. If we can't attend these meetings, at the very least, we should be watched on channel t 6! It's our own fault for not paying attention. It's not always the towns fault.
Agreed 12:24. As long as the educational establishment (admin, teachers, teachers union, and parents who have been convinced that more money equals better education)are united and taxpayers are asleep, the school taxes will rise. (With no real improvement in the education delivered.)
Testing BC. Is the countdown when your term ends?
anon 1:07,
No, my term ends March 2010.
BC if you are elected to the state legislature will you be so busy that you need to step down from the council? Think before answering, you could move a block of votes your way.
anon 8:34,
Will not happen. I made a commitment and I will keep that commitment. We will let the people decide!!
B.C. You are the only councilor to (on a daily bases) take questions and comments head on and answer them forthright! I commend you for that. Hearing the negative as you do is not an easy task. i know you will keep the whole town of Derry in mind when you are serving us in Concord.You've got my vote..and to the nay sayers of this blog,(before you assume) it's not because I'm in any particular camp. It's becasue Brain is an independant thinker and looks at both sides of any issue.
Hmmm, with the exception of his Manning Street fixation, I don't recall alot of independent thinking coming from BC in the last many years. Bulkley and now Metts can almost always count on his vote (to spend more money).
BC did you write 11:36 yourself?
Anon 4:41,
I beg to differ. Bike Path vote? new sidewalk off Tsienneto? I refused to play the you vote for this and I'll vote for that behind close door stuff by KC. I'm the only true independant on the council.
and no i did not write that anon 11:36 post. I have a bigger ego than that- i would of posted that comment with my name on it. LOL
To the 16/8/08 4:41 PM 'nay sayer'...I wrote it and no, not Brian! No matter what someone writes there is always someone or more who put a 'conspiricy spin' on things. Brian..you still have my vote!!!
7:06 Clearly subtle humor doesn't come through on the blog. I wasn't serious about BC writing it. And the local conspiracies are well know to anyone watching Derry politics. So, are you Mrs. BC? (oh, come on, smile.)
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