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The opinions expressed are of my own individualy and are not to be interpreted as official of any governing body. Comments from readers are also of their own opinions and will be edited only if the content is harmful or non constructive to any individual. It is important to share information and thoughts on political process so that we may discuss issues that effect us all.
72 comments:
I heard that an ex school committe member pleaded guilty to fraud at his job. Does anyone know the details?
anonymous 2:54,
For details you can go to www.derrynews.com or eagletribune.com or unionleader.com . It has been in all the newspapers recently.
Does anyone remeber the last time Councilor Fairbanks voted "for" something?
Seriously, other than to accept the minutes or stuff like that - she voted against the well ordinance and againt parking signs on Mt. Pleasent....I really can't remember.
anon 4:23, in recognition of your limited recall ability i won't ask you too many difficult questions.
but here you go: can you remember ANY other town councilor who's opinions on matters have been clearly expressed both in public meetings as well as in the papers?
being one of her constituents, why don't you attempt to explain to me how it is that she has such broad support, not only within our district but from the community as a whole?
one last question before you take your nap, are you able to understand that voting "against" something, is actually voting "for" something else?
i can remember when derry councilors voted "for" everything like blind sheep being led to slaughter....and look at the mess it has created!
derry has benefited through ms. fairbanks efforts on the council...we need more like her. as a community, we need to continue to put old pols out to pasture and to welcome new ways of looking at things.
the old pols, stale old ways sure have not worked and we are all paying the price for it now.
janet keep up the good work.
Ms. Fairbanks may have good intentions, but she has the demeanor of a pitbull. She also has her mind made up in advance of any discussions, refusing to listen to others.
(BC, please take note that I, FOR ONE, am not taking personal shots, directly or thru sarcasm)
Anon 3:02,
Councilor Fairbanks having broad support? It's clear that we live in different circles!
The most recent official poll certainly indicates otherwise. She supported the charter changes but those changes were defeated in her district by an overwhelming margin. In fact, her district made the ENTIRE difference - otherwise it would have passed.
You deducted incorrectly that I live in District 1, but the people I talk to say that Councilor Fairbanks has so torched virtually every position of any responsibility in town that nobody is listening to her and, thus, we are effectively and currently without representation on the Council.
She also carries the rather light weight job of Liaison for the Council to the Heritage Commission, yet for most of this year the History museum has had to advertise for volunteers. Just where are all those people she is inspiring?
Please feel free to fill me in on who, within our town government, she has a strong working relationship? Better yet, please list what she has accomplished for her District?
Broad support? Respectfully Sir, I just don't think that's a credible position.
Okay a lot of negative comments here. Does anyone know about how the Salem to Manchester bike path is progressing? There is a section already open starting at the intersection of Depot Road/North Lowell Road and there's a bridge built over the new route 111 near the intersection of route 28. When can I ride from the Derry Town Hall to the Mass line on a pave bike path?
Peter:
Us this link for info on the Windham section of the trail system.
http://www.windhamrailtrail.org/
Chair Bulkley does not get the respect or recognition that he deserves. He keeps the meetings mostly orderly, which is a tall taks with some of the personalities on it. He has served the Town for many years. I am thankful he is still willing to serve despite the abuse he has to suffer.
I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH ANY OF YOU, INCLUDING MR. BUCKLEY. BUT YES I AGREE, HE HAS DONE AN OUTSTANDING JOB.
Well, Well, Well... I could have predicted that Fairbanks would vote against the purchase of the conservation land. Why would she actually want to better the entire community?
I definitely would NOT have predicted that Coyle would be a coward and abstain from the vote. People elected him (Not Me!) to make an informed decision and vote responsibly, not to sit there and do nothing.
BC,
I'm leaving out the names because it is only a rumor that I've heard...
Is there any truth to a rumor that one particular Councilor who favored an investigation of our Conservation Chairman ALSO congratulated the accuser who passed on the second hand story and thanked him (the second-hand acusser) for setting the record straight?!
....stating that before the proposed investigation takes place!
How could that Councilor possibly be part of an objective investigation...or anything to do with the Conservation Chair in the future?!
If true, how can this Councilor claim to maintain objectivity over politics?
I'd submit, if your objectivity is destroyed by politics then it's time to fall on your sword and resign.
D3,
I am no Coyle fan be any stretch, but he made the right call in recusing himself - he owns property that would be affected.
My issue with his performance is that IF he's going to recuse himself, he also should not participate in the discussions/deliberations...he can affect the outcome in that manner too.
It is also notable to me that exit 4A is going to a major topic of discussion --- maybe the most important one this year --- and he has to sit on the sidelines.
I'm not sure what I think about that.
Annonymous 3:10,
Perhaps, the councilor you speak of didn't just "say it", perhaps that councilor emailed the congratulations and thanks for setting the record straight to Mr. Pellerino. Let's hope the press digs into this dispicable politics.
You are spot on --- it goes directly to objectivity in future dealings.
In this mornings Eagle Trib, it announces that Mr. Pellerino is no longer interested in the property --- I read that to mean he was never interested in the whole property, just enough to save him some property tax.
Many people have come to expect this political activitiy from Coyle and Fairbanks, but it is now clear that Mr. Carney is off the fence and is surgically attached to Mr. C & Mrs. F.
Brent, could you please justify supporting an investigation of a 20 year town volunteer with a spotless record of service and integrity based on a jilted second hand accuser?
Let's see, in the comments on this thread someone is called a coward. Kevin Coyle is denounced for speaking out in opposition to his own financial self interests and Brent Carney a man of great independence and integrity is attacked as an appendage of other people.
All you anonymous posters, how about learning a little civility?
djn,
In defense fo my fellow annonymouses, it was "D3" who called someone a coward, not an annonymous. Please be more careful about throwing out accusations about us annonymouses, we are a very sensitive lot.
And yes, one annonymous did write that Mr. Carney was surgically attached to Mr. Coyle and Fairbanks, but that doesn't shadow his/her very sound underlying question:
"Brent, could you please justify supporting an investigation of a 20 year town volunteer with a spotless record of service and integrity based on a jilted second hand accuser?"
NOTE: Maybe Mr. Carney is not a visitor to this blog; there's been no answer to this question here or in any other public forum.
And lastly, it was I who made the comment about Mr. Coyle's recusal on 4A and I stand by it. He made the right call in doing so because he could stand to gain financially. In any case, if any councilor recuses themself, I think they also should also NOT participate in the discussion/debate (exception: perhaps he could comment as member of the public, if he wanted). If my memory serves me correctly, this is similar to what happens on the planning, zoning and conservation boards...the people who recuse themself actually give up their seat (for an alternate) for the entire matter at hand.
I'm not suggesting an alternate take Mr. Coyles place (the charter doesn't allow for that), but he did the right thing and chose to recuse himself...in my view, that means the debate as well as the vote. He still has the right to speak from the audience.
I stand corrected anon 9:08. One of you did not throw that particular brick. My point stands that as long as politics in Derry is considered a blood sport where personal attacks are commonplace, some of the most talented people will stand on the sidelines. No "side" is without fault in this matter. I struggle to avoid degrading those with opposing (and therefore incorrect) opinions. The town would benefit from more such struggling. I think for example we could have a rational discussion as to whether DEDC is acheiving the development needs of Derry without it degenerating into a debate on the virtues or sins of Jack Dowd.
In Derry questioning is perceived as a personal attack and personal attacks are perceived as business as usual.
I ask us all to raise the bar.
anon 9:08
the more I think about it the more I disagree with you regarding Kevin's participating in the debate. If he has a different perspective (and often does) after he has revealed the conflict to his fellow councilors, we should welcome his input. We need more ideas not fewer. We gain nothing by silencing him and may lose much.
This goes not only for Kevin but also for those with whom I almost never agree.
Again, Mr. Coyle would not be silenced...after he recuses himself as a Councilor, he's just like me and you...he should sit in the other chair for public comments.
As far as the DEDC, you have to admit that under the current cost associated with that group ($0), they are providing on heckuva return!
Questioning is good? Why did Janet Fairbanks call for an investigation of Mr. Dion AT THE SAME OF thanking the accuser for "setting the record straight"?
That question is not for you, of course, but relevent I think.
I personally hope Mr. Dionne requests a PUBLIC investigation into this matter. It might actually show just how out of line (and out of touch) Janet Fairbanks really is.
And shame on Brent Carney, conservation's Council liaison. He has remained silent during through all of Fairbanks attacks and failed to support anyone on the commission or the commission as a group, but he made sure to speak to the press PDQ supporting Fairbanks call for an investigation.
If he thinks Mr. Dionne or the commission is in the wrong, he should say it to them in person before calling for an investigation in the papers.
djn,
re: your comments of derry's bloodsport...
do you believe in the practice --- as do mr. coyle, mrs fairbanks, and mr. carney --- of running to the newspapers with accusations (in recent cases WITHOUT any substantiation) ----- OR ---- do you think that the way to develop effective working relationships with people is confront them directly, even perhaps privately first, only making feeble public attempts to embarrass people AS A LAST RESORT?
SIDEBAR: Hats off to the Derry News for NOT biting on the latest Janet Fairbanks accusation until actual facts came out. Perhaps they are catching on.
Separetely, you stated that our taxes are too high...what are your ideas in reducing them? We annonymouses are just dying for specific answers --- only then really can we have a most constructive dialog.
correction anon 7:01,
djn should first justify his assertion that taxes are too high...by the numbers, thats not an easy case to make.
i'd rather keep my money, but saying taxes are too high is a completely different question.
anon 7:01
Please encourage your favorite candidates to run on the plank that Derry taxes are not too high. That would be fun.
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. -Voltare
NOT SO FAST DOUG NEWELL.
YOU HAVE JUST DEMONSTRATED THE WORST OF DERRY POLITICS.
YOU "SAY" THAT CIVILITY IS IMPORTANT. YOU "SAY" THAT QUESTIONS ARE GOOD. YOU "SAY" THAT QUESTIONING SHOULD NOT BE PERCEIVED AS PERSONAL ATTACK.
YET YOU RESPOND TO RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED QUESTIONS WITH AN ATTEMPT AT CONDESENDING WIT (NOTE THE VOLTARE QUOTE)
FURTHER THAN THAT YOU DISMISS THESE QUESTIONS:
ARE YOU TYING THE FORECLOSURE RATE TO HIGH TAXES?
HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT TAXES ARE TOO HIGH? I'LL ADD THIS ONE - DOESNT' COME DOWN TO THIS - IT IS YOUR "OPINION".
WHAT DO YOU SPECIFICALLY PROPOSE IN REGARDS TO REDUCING TAXES?
THESE ARE NOT TRICK QUESTIONS AND THEY WERE RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED. MR DOUG NEWELL.
IS THAT THE TYPE OF RESPONSE WE COULD EXPECT FROM YOU TO ANYONE WHO HAS A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT?
the very brief interaction between coyle and steinhouse at last nights council meeting on 91a requests caught my attention.
bc, are these freedom of information requests?
steinhouse seemed to imply that there were alot of them.
why was coyle checking on one for mr. burtis?
how much time/money do we spend on these things yearly?
can a 91a request be made for a summary of all the 91a requests made (subject & requestor) to see who's making them? is it being abused? would the taxpayers be entitled to know if - hypothetically - 2 full time poeple are needed to fill the requests of 1 or 2 people in town? Now there's a good lead for some investigative reporting. I'm sure Courtney will be all over it!
I agree, a great subject for an investagative news report.
I'd be willing to bet Burtis has made over 100 91A (right to know)requests this year alone, many of which I'm sure were prompted by Mr. Coyles inside knowledge. Maybe the report could look into that connection as well. Like how Mr. Burtis has knowledge of non-public info.
FYI, Courtney is no longer with the Derry News and the it is quite apparent in their reporting. It has actually become, dare we speak it, objective.
If it keeps up I might actually renew the subscription I cancelled when it was becoming clear that Courtney was on Coyle's and Fairbanks speed dial.
anonymous 3:51,
I'm in the same boat as you are. Last night was the first time I had found out about yet another Burtis 91A request. We as councilors used to get an e-mail from the TA saying that a 91A request has been requested- Not anymore as i found out last night. It will be interesting to see what requests are being ask for- The man hours used to compile this information and the total cost involved. I believe that people are only charged for the copies and not the man hours used.
If Burtis would just run for council and if he were to win not only would he get to see this info for free-he would save the taxpayers money as well. We as councilors don't get to take dept employees off of thier jobs for information we want.
Regarding the 91A's-- Let's see you all don't seem to have an issue with hundreds of thousands of dollars being spent studying mosquitos for 4A but someone trying to open up information about Derry government and now you are the taxpayers' best friend.
What would you all like hidden?
Doug,
Your a smart man. Is The 91A requests from this one individual for information purposes or is the request so over the top that it can be considered a "witch hunt". And at what point does it seem obvioious. We all understand people have a right to information-no problem but it sure seems like it could be a waste of time, effort and money. Good try making it with a 4A study-I don't see the two comparing.
Are ALL questions good, mr. newell, or just the questions that you like?
BC,
How do you make a 91A request?
Doug,
I stated I'd like to see an investagative report by a newspaper on the 91A subject and if and why Mr. Burtis is requesting information about things that are supposed to be non-public.
I don't think that's hiding anything. In fact if Mr. Burtis has nothing to hide why doesn't he just volunteer the information.
I always find it amusing that the people who yell the loudest for transparency in government suddenly start with conspiracy and cover-up talk when someone starts looking at them. They seem to prefer the transparency of a one way mirror.
Do any of you "anonymouses" see any irony in "not trying to hide anything?"
BC- Thank you. But I'm no where near as smart as I'd like to be. Life is a continuing education.
djn,
to answer your question directly....nope.
you seem to be saying that an opposing view is attempting to hide something from you?
is this what you really think?
anonymous 7:34,
To make an 91A request, one must ask the town administrator in writing of the information that one is requesting. Under State statue the municipality has a limited amount of time to comply to this request. I think that is 5 days. ( will have to check) So If a request comes in for say all documention for fire calls from 1990-2007, you can see how much effort and time and resourses the town will need to obtain this information. Could it be abused? You make the judgement.
Bravo BC!
The last line of your last post says it all - "You make the judgement".
Put the info - any info - out there and let the people make the judgement.
I understand there is typically one full time person working on these things at any moment. My sense is that this would make one heckuva story for the Derry News or the Nutfield News.... I wonder if they would go after it or wait for a concerned citizen to bring it forward.
At any time as well, Mr. Stienhouse could inject the current status of these (with or without names?) into his administrators report (if he views these requests as usurping staff resources from other duties or projects).
...that info does not have to put out in an accusatory fashion. Ditto the last two posts --- It's just info, you decide.
OK gang, if I must beat you over the head with it, BC and I are out there, known to all. A bunch of people (or mavbe just one prolific writer) is/are hiding under the anonymous identity talking about transparency, open government and "not hiding anything". Wow. I respect BC even though I rarely agree with him. Anonymouses, sniping from the grassy knolls... not so much.
By the way, if John Burtis didn't regularly skewer you all in his letters to the editor, you would not have the slightest interest in the cost of 91A's. Pity no one in your camp can write as well. That would be great fun.
THERE'S A PATTERN DEVELOPING HERE.
ONCE AGAIN DJN FAILS TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THE QUESTION AT HAND. THE QUESTION REMAINS WHETHER ALL 91A REQUESTS (NOT ONLY THE ONES JOHN BURTIS REQUESTS FOR KEVIN COYLE) SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO POTENTIAL PUBLIC SCRUTINY?
THE ANSWER FOR THIS ANNONYMOUS IS A RESOUNDING "YES". DOES ANYONE DARE JUSTIFY ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WITH "NO"?
PLEASE DJN; THE ISSUE REMAINS WHAT IS BEING WRITTEN NOT WHO IS WRITING IT. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.
This is an "open forum" according to the title. Therefore I don't think I am constrained to stay on the topic of your choice "Anonymous".
However I personally have no problem with the subjects of all 91A's being made public. 91A refers to a state law. What are its provisions and why was it constructed as it is? Is it state law that they remain secret? The term "tempest in a teapot" comes to mind but rage on if you'd like.
If you think demanding someone do some clerical work to answer citizen questions is a major problem, I think you will find the average Derry citizen is as excited about the issue as I am. Sorry I'm going to bed.
hey all,
since it is open forum, I couldn't help but notice councilor carney's letter in the paper today.
i guess i agree with him that constiuent meetings are a good thing, but how do you define or police such a meeting - how is a meeting like that distinguished from a political event? i assume that most would agree that we shouldn't subsidize political events. Or on another track, would it be OK if a councilor used our facilties for a district forum with Planned Parenthood as a participant? If someone were running against an incumbent, could he/she demand equal time?
i don't think councilor fairbanks' forum approaches those examples and i applaud her effort to reach out, but would it not dismiss any question of inproper use if these meetings were held at the garrish center.
in short, what are the rules/laws that regulate the use of our public facilities?
on the other thing councilor carney says, saying that the derry news annonymous hotlines should be censored, that's ridiculous.
ditto on annon 7:42 on this single point - it's about thoughts, ideas and opinions, NOT personalities.
DOUG,
THE TOWN GOT ALL HUFFED UP ABOUT AN $80K PAVING PROJECT AND $30K FOR THE DEDC.
WE SPEND AT LEAST THAT MUCH PROCESSING THESE REQUESTS.
Mr. Carney finds it "appalling that the Derry News continues to print personal attacks week after week in the hotline." He goes on to say "It doesn't help our community, it doesn't help the political discourse, and it certainly doesn't help attract new businesses to our town."
Annonymouses of Derry UNITE!! Join me in calling for Mr. Carney to denounce Mr. Burtis for the same reasons!!!
At least for me, THEN Mr. Carney will be a leader that I can follow.
Anon 8:28
If taxes were not so high you could probably afford a new keyboard, I notice that your caps lock seems to be permanently stuck. I have lots of extras if you need one.
$110,000 fulfilling 91a requests? Wow that must be about 2 full time clerical staff working 5 days a week all year round. Perhaps we should outsource that. I'd bid on that contract. As usual, 8:28 I don't believe you have worked the numbers.
Wasn't it Fairbanks, who made an issue about (in her view) potential improper use of fire dept vehicles?
Anon 5:49 am
Did I miss something or are you starting a new topic?
Yes, I believe she did. Are you in favor of "improper use" of town equipment? How about town funds? Town personnel? Please help me connect the dots if this relates to anything we have been writing about,or anything at all.
Hi djn,
I was just trying to follow the string of posts and noted the post about Carneys letter that defended Fairbanks district forum.
I think that the use of town equipment AND town facilites should be looked at closely. You seem to agree?
Annon 8:24 provokes some thought; I agree with most of his/her thoughts.
anon 8:59
Yes, we should watch who uses and how our facilities are being used. Town Councilors meeting with their constituents is such a breath of fresh air in Derry, I hardly think that this deserves a second look. I would applaud any councilor or anyone in Derry's town management for meeting with the people of Derry. I would also approve of our Congresswoman using the facilities to try to explain her voting record, same for US Senators and the President. The all work for us and should hear our concerns.
Somewhere I saw someone question the electric bill for such meetings. (Cost is probably less than $1?) This comes across as small and petty. People who chase after such nonsense deserve the ridicule that is heaped upon them in humorous letters to the editor and do a disservice to those that are actually diligent about monitoring the use of public property.
Not to change the subject but...after seeing the article in todays Lawrence Eagle Tribune.."advertised for economic development chief" I have a question. By adding this position, what is the intended plan for working with now, Town Planner, George Sioras?
anonymous 10:23,
I will try to answer your question as I see it. George Siros does an great job for this town and is a value member to help bring in economic development however I think he has a lot on his plate. For years they put a position in for an assistant planner to free goerge up some more for economic development but somehow the position never came to be. That leads me to believe the town does not want an assistant planner. Now with an economic development director and the community development director we have more resourses to go after businesses. The DEDC should still be an important part as well. I see this as taking Economic Development and ratching it up a notch. Team work will get us to our goals!
BC,
You began "I will try to answer your question as I see it." Hmmmm.
I emphasize the last part of that statement "...as I see it." You just gave a short outline your view or approach to economic development in Derry.
Thanks for that, but is there a consensus on the council in regards an approach and respective roles? If there is no consensus, aren't we just setting the Administrator (and the entire town!) up for failure?
MR. CARNEY HAS HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO CRITICIZE THE LIKES OF BURTIS, ROSE, DIMMOCK, ETC. FOR WHAT MANY CONSIDER VICIOUS PERSONAL ATTACKS. EXAMPLES ARE ALMOST ENDLESS.
ONE WOMAN'S VIEW: THE ONLY THING CARNEY'S LETTER DEMONSTRATES IS THAT HE FAVORS CENSORSHIP OF HIS POLITICAL ADVISARIES.
PROFILES IN COURAGE? I THINK NOT.
anon 12:17 PM: Wow, “profiles in courage” nice shot, given Brent’s employer. The guy calls them as he sees them irritating on different occasions both of Derry’s political factions. You go after him because he doesn’t spend his time attacking others. That should either push him into the camp of your opposition (a good thing) or out of public service (a bad thing). Either way, you lose.
IN MY VIEW, THE DAYS OF WORRYING ABOUT PUSHING HIM INTO ANY CAMP ARE LONG PAST...FOR GOOD OR BAD, THROUGH HIS WORDS, ACTIONS AND VOTES, HE'S DEFINED HIMSELF AND WHAT CAMP HE'S IN.
FOR EXAMPLE, ANYONE HAVING THE HIGHLY MORAL FIRE IN THEIR BELLY TO WRITE SUCH A LETTER, SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN A SIMILAR ONE A FEW WEEKS BACK WHEN MR. BURTIS DESCRIBED TWO OTHER COUNCILORS AS DOING THE WORK OF THE DEVIL OR SHOULD HAVE STOOD UP IN DEFENSE OF THE OBVIOUS VENDETTA AGAINST THE CONSERVATION COMMISSION.
TIME WILL TELL WHICH INDIVIDUALS LOSE; IN THE MEANTIME, THE TOWN OF DERRY LOSES.
Annon 4:41,
I never thought of it that way until now but in the blink of an eye he sure did come running for Councilor Fairbanks while for others he's sat on the sidelines.
Mr. Carney didnt just sit on the sidelines, he joined in calling for the latest investgation of the conservation chair and did so based on what?
djn,
i'm just trying to catch up with some of your thoughts in previous posts. your 4/10 9:53 post implies that 91A requests, as a matter of the law, are supposed to be kept secret. is that your understanding of it, or did I misread your post?
After quickly reading State RSA 91-A I cannot find anywhere that says these requests are to be kept secret. I would like the Derry Snooze to maybe do an article looking into the number of 91-A requests and who has requested them. I guess that would mean they'd too have to file a 91-A request. :)
Can I suggest a new thread about Albert Dolittle.
I've lived in town about a dozen years and never met the man, but I have a keen interest in all the men and woman who helped build this town.
Perhaps bloggers could share stories about Mr. Dolittle.
I also openly wonder who among our current generation of community leaders and activists will share the same shinning light as Mr. Dolittle.
anon 5:21,
Great Idea! I'll start a new post right now.
Doug,
I have to say I’m disappointed in the tone and mentality that’s beginning to show through in your more recent posts. Allow me to give you some examples.
You said “I struggle to avoid degrading those with opposing (and therefore incorrect) opinions.”
I’ll try to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, that it might be an attempt at sarcasm and not a serious statement. If you in fact believe that opposing opinions are always “incorrect”, then your only goal in a discussion would be to change another’s opinion rather than perhaps scrutinize your own.
You’ve also said “A bunch of people (or maybe just one prolific writer) is/are hiding under the anonymous identity talking about transparency, open government and "not hiding anything".
Our democracy and government were founded on anonymity. Hence the secret ballot in our election process. Why must identification be a prerequisite for an exchange of ideas/opinions? And how are you different? I grant that you have identified yourself somewhere on this blog, but how would someone reading a different string, know who you are by djn? Or me, or d3 or any of the others who “identify” themselves? I would defend anyone’s right to contribute to a discussion or exchange ideas, regardless of their identity or lack of one. BC chooses to allow anonymous posts. You can either accept that and participate or not. Or you can start your own blog with your own rules.
This one really scares me. In referring to John Burtis, you say “By the way, if John Burtis didn't regularly skewer you all in his letters to the editor, you would not have the slightest interest in the cost of 91A's. Pity no one in your camp can write as well. That would be great fun.”
This says to me, that in your perspective, Derry is divided into “camps” and that you, sitting on the sidelines, find watching them attack each other “great fun”. And Mr. Burtis regularly attacking the people in town that you apparently perceive as being all the same, while he sits on the sidelines as well, offering not one constructive suggestion is perfectly acceptable in your book. Seems a little incongruous with your next one.
In defending Brent Carney you say “The guy calls them as he sees them irritating on different occasions both of Derry’s political factions. You go after him because he doesn’t spend his time attacking others. That should either push him into the camp of your opposition (a good thing) or out of public service (a bad thing)”.
If he in fact does “call them as he sees them” then his defense of Councilor Fairbanks while at the same time calling for an investigation into a 20 year volunteer with an impeccable record, would indicate that his “view” might be a little skewed. Personal attacks are wrong whether they’re in the paper or from a town councilor. It’s hypocritical to condemn one, and support the other.
You also mention the “camp” thing again. I might suggest there’s a 3rd option. How about Brent, or any councilor for that matter, have the courage to just do the right thing for Derry regardless of political alliances? Maybe such a novel concept might be the beginning of a new trend in town politics that Brent could be on the forefront of.
I can’t for the life of me, understand why intelligent people continue to have this narrow view of our town with “camps”, “both of Derry’s political factions”, council minority/majority and the like. That mentality is archaic and does nothing to benefit Derry whatsoever. It’s also inaccurate. The notion that almost 20,000 registered voters all fit neatly into one of two camps is simply ludicrous.
Come on Doug, show me how any of these examples is not just more of the same status quo Derry politics and why anyone wound not consider you a purveyor of the same.
nfw -
Of course I view contrary views as incorrect. If I thought they were correct I would adopt those views. Do you view contrary views as correct? If so, then you know you are wrong and refuse to yield to facts and logic? There is a huge difference between seeing opposing views as incorrect and denying people the right to hold those views. I will defend your right to be absolutely wrong. I will also point out your errors in logic and your errors in facts.
As for the camps, if you have not noticed that there are two different groups in town, you have not been paying attention. In fact, each group probably has the other’s email list. The most casual analysis of the voting records of the Town Council shows two groups have existed for about 24 years (or at least that is as long as I have noticed it). Have you been paying attention? Do you recognize reality? I did not say that it is a good thing but that is the truth. There are two factions in Derry politics and they do not break along traditional Republican/Democrat lines.
You and others seem to have a real problem with the fact that Brent Carney has not denounced… oh, well a whole list of people. Instead he has acted with dignity and as a gentleman, leading by example. Being punished for not making the correct political denunciations, (flashback to Moscow 1936) is not a characteristic of a healthy political environment. He does “have the courage to just do the right thing for Derry regardless of political alliances” and that’s what drives you nuts. I’m ok with it because I am tolerant of opposing (incorrect) views, even yours.
DJN,
Mr. Carney chose to speak out against an anonymous hotline (that I actually disagree with it) regarding Councilor Fairbanks use of the municipal center. While the hotline expressed outrage, it did not make any personal characterization of either Councilor Fairbanks or Councilor Carney.
As was pointed out in a letter in yesterdays paper, contrast that to one citizen comparing Councilor Buckley to Hitler and Stalin, another citizen describing Councilors Chirichiello and Ferante as doing the work of the devil, Councilor Coyle publicly and directly calling Councilor Buckley a liar, Councilor Coyle directly describing John Moody and Chief Klauber as sandbaggers, Councilor Fairbanks' ongoing attacks on Paul Dionne's integrity, Councilor Coyle writing a constituent, telling her to go shove it, etc.,etc.,etc..
Mr. Newell, Mr. Carney has sat on his hands regarding all of these personal attacks and came running to the defense of Councilor Fairbanks over (an ill-founded) criticism of use of the municipal center.
People are watching Mr. Newell and people know the difference. As such people also know that Mr. Carney is NOT a leader, but just one in the pack of one the "camps".
PS to BC: Note that I have not offered destructive comments, but simply listed those made by others in public. They are pertinent to the point Mr. Newell has attempted to make. As such, I would expect this this post to be posted.
Anon 2:39
This has become a long string, help me out, please show me where you denounced D3 for calling Kevin Coyle a coward.
If we must spend our time denouncing others sins rather than being held responsible for our own actions we are going to be very busy.
Yes, what d3 wrote was an inappropriate personal attack, certainly does not advance his positions and he should, at least refrain from such charactoizations in the future.
See how easy that is Mr. Newell.
Clearly though, I'm not the one who is trying to portray myself as a leader.
The people are watching, Mr. Newell; they see all of these interactions and they know who are the real leaders and gentlemen.
For example, at a recent council meeting Chairman Buckley also apologized -"I apologize" he said, when Mr. Carney objected to the Chairman's "stalling" comment - a comment worthy of correction, but hardly likend to the aforementioned "personal" attacks.
People are watching Mr. Newell; they know the difference between leadership and hypocracy. No one is being fooled.
Doug,
First, I see opposing views as an opportunity to learn and possibly see a different perspective. Though I am not always correct in this assumption, it’s almost always worth exploring. A pity that your narrow and somewhat cynical view doesn’t afford you the same opportunities.
As to the camp issue, I’m puzzled by your analysis of the voting records and as you’ve obviously spent time analyzing them, I’d really love to know what camp I’m supposed to be in. I wouldn’t want to be considered AWOL. See, I don’t subscribe to your stereotyping theory and don’t consider myself in any “camp” other than the Derry one.
I also choose not to look back at 24 years of history (or 71years, in the case of your abstract Moscow reference). Most of Derry’s current population (including myself) has not been here anywhere near 24 years, in fact I believe well over 50% has been hear less than 10, so why should we care or consider the petty battles of the past and continued to the present for no other reason than “that’s the way we’ve always done it”.
I choose instead to look to the future where more enlightened people say no to your stereotypes. A future where politicians vote their conscience, regardless of the opinion of a so called majority or minority and people rail against the hypocrisy of having one standard for some but different standards for others.
As to Mr. Carney’s future, as I’ve said, time will tell. If he continues to profess his conviction on issues he chooses to ignore when convenient he will continue to be questioned on it.
And to be clear, I have only QUESTIONED why Mr. Carney chose to do nothing to defend the people or the commission on which he serves as council liaison and chose instead to defend the councilor who made what were proven to be numerous false accusations.
As to Brent acting with dignity, I believe the title of the letter he sent to the Derry News was “Anonymous comments shouldn't be printed”. While it would appear that the both of you agree on the silencing/censorship of those who choose not to identify themselves and subject both themselves and their families to the ridicule inherent in speaking against certain people and issues, I fail to see where this equates to dignity.
I also noticed you chose not to address the issue of John Burtis’ ongoing personal attacks or the “great fun” you seem to find in his writings. Anonymous 5:26 spoke against d3’s comments about Mr. Coyle. Are you not as much of a gentleman to do the same? You appear to have a sliding scale as to what is an attack and what you consider fair and appropriate questioning.
I have heard/read/seen much of John Burtis and his colorful commentary on town affairs, but tonigh's Town Council Meeting was over the top! The evening started off with hearing more than we ever heard before from our Town Administrator. I must say though, I was taken aback by his reference to 'no B.S.', which in my opinion came across as very unprofessional...As the short meet took it's course I sat in amazement as he took immediate issue to Mr. Coyle and Mr. Burtis's statements. Would 'pitbull' be to strong a term for what came next?
Never mind looking at the town's charter, I think we should start looking at the terms of his contract we signed with him a few months ago. Let's be careful.Remember how his term ended in Rochester!
One another note - how is this going to reflect on Derry and it's attempt at economic development?
Indeed, the public in-your-face Kevin Coyle embarrassed the town once again.
How about this alternative - after Burtis has his say - Kevin immediately says "Mr. Chairman, I would request that we go into non-public session to discuss this matter". End of story - no embarrassment for the town.
It's clear that Coyle set the entire thing up - March of 2009 cannot come soon enough.
I know that this will problably get lost with the newest hot button, the T.C.Meeting of 10/16, but I would like to know what happened to Tom Carrier who 'sat' on the Planning Board? Can you enlighten me Brian?
I know that this will problably get lost with the newest hot button, the T.C.Meeting of 10/16, but I would like to know what happened to Tom Carrier who 'sat' on the Planning Board? Can you enlighten me Brian?
tom,
I'm not 100% sure yet and I myself have only small snipets of information. Councilors will be meeting in non-public to discuss soon and until we are able to discuss in public, I am unable to really say much more.
I appreciate your position and thank you for your reply.
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