The charter commission wants you to believe that by voting for their proposal, you the taxpayer will save lots of money and they don't tell you the loss of services that comes with those savings. Lets look at some numbers here and find out how much you can expect to save and at what cost. Lets only talk about the portion of possible change as it relates to the voting on budget. If the charter revision passes and the voters vote down the budget, the budget then defaults to previous years budget with no increase at all.
Remember the charter change can only effect town portion of your taxes
Town Portion of taxes = $7.50/per $1000 of value of your home
Average Derry home is valued at =$280,000
Average town portion taxes paid =$2100 per year
12 mos per year $2100/12 = $175 per month
$175 per month gets you these town services:
Police protection: 24 hours day/ 7 days week
Fire Protection: 24/7
EMT/Ambulance service: 24/7
Road maintenance/snow removal/public works
Transfer station services
Use of parks & recreation fields/ open space
Needed infrastructure improvements
Two Libraries
Planning, zoning, code enforcement, and all other services at town hall.
Folks, compare this $175/month to some common other bills you may have. Whats your families total cell phone bill monthly? How about cable, Internet and phone service? How about the cost of eating out 1 time a week per family? Whats your Dunkin Donut coffee fix each morning cost you per year? All of the above items are not must have items mind you.
Is this putting things into proper perspective for you??
OK lets continue, Lets say we get really mad at the town and cut 1/3rd of every town portion services.. Cut 1/3 police, Cut 1/3 Fireman 1/3 Public works, You get the picture 1/3 of everything in the town budget.
You were paying $2100 Now you pay $1400 Savings= $700 year
$700/12 = $58.00 per month =or $1.91 per day ( enough to get you another Dunkin Donut coffee)
You say hey, that's better than nothing at all right?
remember you have 1/3 less police protection
1/3 less fire protection, heck 1/3 less public work crews plowing the roads. Will the crime rate drop by a third? How about ambulance calls, do you think we will have 1/3 less, maybe we'll luck out and it snows only on 1/3rd of our roads to be plowed.
Seriously folks, we have a tax cap on the towns portion of tax bill that works, tied into the CPI and over the last 5 years the budget increases have been around 2.6%.
Why this charter commission wants you to believe that town taxes and town council spending is out of control is ridiculous! Numbers don't lie
If you feel that you would rather have a cup of DD coffee vs. town services, then go ahead and vote for their charter revision.
After you're finished drinking that coffee, don't go whining about lack of services and look to someone else to blame.
Oh, I almost forgot, At least we get to vote in May and the weather will be nice. ( at an extra cost of $8000 dollars every year more)
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YOU ARE CORRECT,NUMBERS DONT LIE. 7.50/1000 OF AN OUT SIDE FIRMS EVALUATION ,WHILE GOMAZ STILL GETS HIS PAYCHECK. A THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLAR HOUSE AT EVALUATION TIME IS NOW ON THE MARKET FOR 240 THOUSAND AND NOT MOVING, BUT SELLERS STILL HAVE 300 GRAND OF ASSESTMENT. GOOD DEAL FOR TOWN ,NOT HOME OWNER. POLICE PROTECTION 24/7 ,WE WONT GO THERE.THEY KNOW WHAT I DRIVE. FIRE PROTECTION 24/7 ,TOO MANY FIREMAN AND NO MANAGEMENT.CUT BY 1/3 IS A GOOD START. STOP TRIPS TO SUB SHOPS,SHAWS,HANIFORDS,CITIZENS BANK,AUTO SUPPLY STORES,PIZZA PARLORS,CHINNESE RESTERAUNTS,AND WORK-OUT CENTERS. IF THEY WANT TO SENT ONE MAN IN HIS OWN VEHICLE,FINE.TOO MANY MILES BEING PUT ON TAXPAYERS EQIPMENT. EMT/AMBULANCE,WONT GO THERE. I MAY NEED THEM AFTER MY NEXT TAX BILL COMES IN THE MAIL. TRANSFER STATION SERVICES,THIS IS A GOOD ONE. ALMOST EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO DISCARD, THERE IS ANOTHER FEE. ALL I HERE WHEN I GO THERE IS THAT WILL BE 12.50 SIR AND HEY YOU OLD BASTARD NO DUMP PICKING ,THATS OUR STUFF NOW! PARKS AND RECREATION!WORKING 12 HRS. A DAY TO PAY TAXES AND SPEND SATERDAY MORNING IN LINE AT THE DUMP ,YOU REALY DONT HAVE MUCH TIME TO LAY IN THE GRASS IN THE PARKS. INFRASTRUCTURE IMPOVEMENTS WILL NEVER GET DONE WITH A SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT AT THE HELM BECAUSE SCHOOL PERSONEL WILL GET ANY MONEY IN THE TILL(FAVORS). AM I EXAGERATING.LETS SEE WHAT THE NEW NUMBERS WILL BE AT THE POLLS .They wont lie!
1st wh3 show me a home assessed for 300K and selling for 240K and I'll show you a foreclosure notice-those happen everywhere and in all towns. I can tell you want the extra coffee each morning.
also- Dr Moody has no control of the school tax dollars nor county nor state for that matter.
I can understand people can have a hard time paying taxes, my point is the town council is not in control of overall taxes but people want to blame them for all their problems.
Wh3, please explain something to me. I'm trying to comprehend how I'm supposed to take your post seriously, and even consider your information to be accurate with all caps and more grammatical errors than I'm willing to count. I understand you have an opinion (regardless that it is not so understandable), which is fine, everyone is entitled to their own. Unfortunately, for you, it is poorly thought, misinformed, and horribly presented. I'm an extremely open minded individual, and am willing to hear people out, regardless of whether I agree or not. But, what I'm not going to do is sit quietly while someone who hasn't the slightest idea what they might be talking, posts comments that look like they were authored by a 14 year old.
A point you make that I am trying to fathom, is how you believe that LESS Fire Protection is a good thing. I'm not exactly sure how YOU feel, but if something were to happen to my home, I'd much rather prefer eighteen firefighters are available, than four like most communities. Please do me a favor next time, and consider maybe researching a little bit, before you climb up onto your soap box. Let's take the recent fire in Berlin for example. (Link: http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Three+die+in+Berlin+fires&articleId=bea2b340-419c-43ad-91f0-9182795cf160). As you can read there, when the first calls came in for this fire that destroyed numerous buildings in Berlin's downtown, and claimed three lives, including a 5 year old boy, there were four firefighters on duty. Now, again assuming that you haven't done any research, or have any idea at all, it is impossible to fight a fire with four people. You say a 1/3 cut would be a great start. So that would leave 13 firefighters to man four engines, four ambulances, one ladder truck, and one rescue truck. And you want to go furthur? So now, you have made it less safe for my family, and about 50,000 more people, because YOU don't want to pay for something. I'm surprised that you haven't yet realized in life you need to pay for things, they aren't just going to appear. This would also take away jobs from people that have put years into their education and training (most likely more than you have put into yours, from how your article is presented).
Something else that is amidst my confusion, is how you will preach about fire protection cuts, but won't open your mouth about your Paramedic services. This proves you haven't the slightest clue of what really goes on in your town. See, in Derry, Paramedic and Fire Services are one in the same. If one is cut, both are cut. Apparently, you weren't informed that Derry has one of the busiest Ambulance (and Fire) Services in NH. In 2006, there were approximately 3000 Ambulance calls in Derry (Medical Emergency calls alone, not including Fire related calls). Derry also covers Advanced Life Support services for the towns of Auburn and Chester. So add those ones on. And also mutual aid calls to towns such as Londonderry, Windham, Hampstead, etc... Do you really want to decrease the level of service that is provided to the citizens of this town and others. A level of service that has been awarded with National Accreditation. Derry Fire is one of only two CAAS accredited services in New England, and one of only SEVEN fire department based services in the entire country. I for one, am not going remain still while people like you undermine the towns resources.
Please do us all a favor and educate yourself before speaking out. I found all of this information on the internet, and you can too (assuming you are aware of how to operate a search engine.)
I would love to talk numbers!
2006 NH Town Tax Rates:
Derry 7.5
Nashua 6.17
Raymond 4.96
Lderry 4.44
Chester 4.37
Salem 4.35
Pelham 3.24
Windham 2.95
H-stead 1.66
Derry's town Portion Ranks them 16th HIGHEST out of 189. And 34th over all! Don't all our surrounding neighbors have all these services as well? Looks like they may be better at managing themselves.
From what fed wrote (assuming there is a bit of truth there) it sound like Derry is subsidizing nearby towns to utilize our superb fire and rescue staff. Maybe we should charge more or just simply worry about Derry!
ExRes, You make good points, but lets be fair. Manchester is $7.96, Nashua $6.17 and Concord $6.28
you ask the question " don't all surrounding communities have the same services".
Answer: No Derry has its own Ambulance service
Also if we take notice of the list you are ranking from, many have negative numbers
Could we assume that these towns give credits or money back?
Here's the list
http://www.revenue.nh.gov/property_tax/2006/2006tax_rates.rtf
Brian. you may not print my response, but I will.
First off, you seem convinced that given the right to vote, voters will say no again and again to the Council Budget. Where's the REAL WORLD evidence of that? The School District has operated under SB2 for 11 years and has NOT ONCE voted AGAINST the proposed budget!
And you know what, even if they DO vote against the Budget 3 or 4 years in a row, shouldn't that be their right?
Why are you afraid of the voters, Brian?
Paul,
The school comparision is a weak. Your choice would be $$$$$ or the default would be either more $$ or it would include costs of living adjustments. Your proposal does not.
I'm not afraid of the voters
I'm afraid for the voters
You surprise me BC ... I think you would understand why some tax sheets show negative numbers!
But you bring up an excellent point about those other CITIES! That is right CITIES. If Derry wants to be a city than it should be one! I bet the folks in Concord, Nashua and Manchester get thier trash pick up and many other services for those $$$$. Plus they get additional $$ for being a city. So what does Derry want to be when it grows up ... a struggling town or a thriving city.
ExRes,
You are correct, the others are cities and I agree they may have other services that we do not have. I mentioned them from the stand point of largest communities.
1-Manchester 2-Nashua 3-Concord and 4-Derry.
I did not notice the others were cities until you pointed that fact out.
mr fed, the point of this blog was to get people to open thier eyes about waste.maybe i could give you some reading lessons sometimes and you can give me some spelling lessons.why are the fire trucks everywhere in derry but parked in the station ready to fight fires.read the blog or get reading lessons.you can go to any town in nh and not see two fireman picking up a birthday cake with a ladder truck running for 1/2 an hr. how is this action saving lives.maybe thats the search engine your talking about,when tax payers need it, we will have to search for it. read the blog and go nappy time.
exderryres - I have no problems with comparisons as long as they are fair and your comparisons are not fair.
Nashua and Salem have much higher town valuations. If Derry had the same valuation, Derry's tax rate would drop to 2.41 compared with Nashua at 6.17 or 4.88 compared with Salem at 4.35.
Raymond (4.96), Chester (4.37), and Hampstead (1.66) have volunteer fire departments. If you remove the fire budget from the Derry town budget to get a fairer comparison then Derry's tax rate would be 4.90.
Raymond, Chester, Hampstead, Pelham, and Windham are also towns that are 1/3 the size of Derry and they have significantly less employees and 70-80% of a town's budget is personnel costs.
As for Derry's fire department subsidizing nearby towns, there is some truth to that. For example, Atkinson, Hampstead, Danville, and Sandown utilize a private ambulance service. One ambulance services these towns. If that ambulance is out on a call and another call comes in, these towns may not want to wait 30 minutes for the backup ambulance so they call Derry. That is something we should look into and determine if it is being abused and if so, charge for it.
Your blog is a typical liberal response to taxes. Break down our high tax bill into a daily rate and compare it to a cup of coffee. With that reasoning why don't we line the streets with gold and make it a Latte.
If the voters decide to cut services then they should be heard. What are you afraid of. After a voter cut the budget committees will go back to the drawing board and be more cautious about their citizens money.
As for the fire service name me one other town our size that needs to have 5 fire stations! I have 3 within 2 miles of my house. When I first moved to town I watched the house next to the East Derry station burn to the ground.
Every year I've lived here (going on 16) taxes have increased and someone complains we don't have enough services. People leave Massachusetts to get away from taxes and then come here and complain there aren't enough services.
Stop being so afraid of the voters.
Brian,
Just some observations on your post.
We do not have a budget committee-have not had one in over 20 years.
We have 4 firestations and not 5- If a new station eventually gets built-we could close down one of stations that are ready to collaspe.
You are very lucky to have 3 stations very close by- Some residents in town are not as futunate.
And lastly, breaking down costs to get a better perspective means I'm a liberal????
Just to respond, I didn't realize there was no budget committee, maybe there should be.
I understand the 5th fire station is now a pub, but if it weren't for the vocal citizens there would still be 5 stations with the tajma-firehall being placed at the tennis courts. I'm sure that dream isn't completely dead.
Finally I didn't mean to label you as a liberal, but just seem to hear this argument a lot. It's like when I try to buy a car and the salesman tries to sell me a payment to mask the fact that he is overcharging me for the car. My taxes are $1100/month no matter how you break it down (weeks, days, hours, cup of coffee every 10 minutes). As if I quit drinking coffee then I can afford to have my taxes go up.
Look around Derry there are hundreds of for sale signs, and I'd wager a cup of coffee that a majority are fed up with the rising taxes.
Obviously I'll be voting for the Charter commission.
Brian,
$13,000 dollars in taxes is alot-no doubt I can understand where you are coming from.
You as a citizen of Derry have ever right to vote which ever way you would like.
This Blog is meant to engage citizens into thinking about and asking their opinions on topics which effect all of us.
The main purpose is to get more people asking questions, educating themselves and understanding more how their town goverment works.
I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts and I would much rather have someone who knows the issues and disagrees with mine than to have apathy or nobody who really cares until something happens and they say the didn't realize some of the ramifications with some hard decisions.
Thank you brucek. You are correct that it isn't fair to compare just simple numbers and then blame the TC. However, your reasons for not being able to compare bring us to the root of the issue!
Some solutions to the tax problems maybe ...
- Control Population Growth (whether it is through zoning regs or taxing the rental ownership to pay thier fair share)
- Stop Gold Plating Services (Do we really need EMTs or can we use the hospital!)
- Increase the valuation (DEDC isn't working ...)
- Look for increased revenues (i.e become a city)
There are probably others ... but it needs to be looked at wholistically and there is no pot of gold at the end of any one of these solutions.
exderryres...
The Growth Maintenance Ordinance was put in place is to control the population growth and it has worked very well.
It is up to town residents to say if they want a "gold-plated" ambulance service. There is no question it is an expensive service and costs can be lowered if we are willing to accept something less than what we currently have.
Yes, if you increase the valuation with commercial development, it will reduce your taxes. However, I believe it unfair to dump the problem solely on the DEDC. Many businesses were not interested in coming to Derry until the TIF passed and the town voted who would handle its economic development. I have "heard" that since the vote last month, the DEDC has been approached by a number of businesses about coming to Derry. So, there may be cause for optimism on this front.
We have to decide if we are a town or a city. There are some who believe we should become a city because it puts the town and school spending until one umbrella rather than the current two. You can then impose a tax cap on both. Something perhaps worth exploring.
exderryres...
The Growth Maintenance Ordinance was put in place is to control the population growth and it has worked very well.
It is up to town residents to say if they want a "gold-plated" ambulance service. There is no question it is an expensive service and costs can be lowered if we are willing to accept something less than what we currently have.
Yes, if you increase the valuation with commercial development, it will reduce your taxes. However, I believe it unfair to dump the problem solely on the DEDC. Many businesses were not interested in coming to Derry until the TIF passed and the town voted who would handle its economic development. I have "heard" that since the vote last month, the DEDC has been approached by a number of businesses about coming to Derry. So, there may be cause for optimism on this front.
We have to decide if we are a town or a city. There are some who believe we should become a city because it puts the town and school spending until one umbrella rather than the current two. You can then impose a tax cap on both. Something perhaps worth exploring.
ExDerryRes,
On your comment about "gold plated services" you state use the hospital. I don't understand what this means?? Lets remember one thing. EMT's are able to stablize a patient who may have a stroke or heart attack at the scene, where every second counts.
If any of my family members is in need in an emergency- I want to be sure there lives are in the very best hands.
Exderryres: Let's remeber that all of Derry's fire and ems apparatus are staffed with paramedics, not just EMT's. The scope of practice of an EMT is far less than that of a paramedic.
You may beleive it's best not to utilize these services, but you may be the only one I've ever heard of.
Let's say it's Friday afternoon and your 5 year old child just had a seizure and has stopped breathing. Is it truly your plan to traverse town in your personal vehicle?
So you pick up your child and place him in your car and start heading for the hospital. There's a lot of traffic due to the time of day, so you have wait for school buses and crowded intersections. You may have a 15 minute travel time or more. But, you've already thought of this. You're going to speed down the streets of Derry to ge there faster.
What if you get pulled over. This may add time to your drive. Or even worse, you get into an accident while you're speeding. The fire deprtment arrives and extricates you from the crushed vehicle. But, unfortunately for you there is no ambulance to take you and your child, who is still not breathing, to the hospital.
What a mess you and others who may share your opinion would create if given the opportunity!
All: I am sorry I was not clear with my post. What I meant was that the taxpayers in Derry should not cover the bill for Ambulatory Care. We should have better negociations with the hospital and neighboring towns. Our tax burden for this gold plated service should be nothing. The revenue (i.e. insurance, the hospital, neighboring towns) should be covering the cost ... if it is not, we have an issue. Tell me, how many times do our Paramedics cover accidents on 93? Does 93 traverse Derry at all?
Approximately 1 mile of Rt 93 runs through Derry. However, a majority of drivers have no clue where they are when they report emergencies on roadways and highways.
Ex. Many drivers beleive Exit 4 is in Derry because the exit sign has Derry on top of Londonderry. Others like yourself don't even know that 93 goes through Derry.
In regards to the so calleed "gold plated service", residents of Derry need to understand that all of the personnel assigned to the ambulances in Derry are also assigned to fire apparatus. The ambulance crews also staff the ladder truck, the rescue, the tanker, and the forestry. Personnel assigned to engine companies staff the secondary ambulances in Town.
exDerryRes: The cost of providing ambulance service is $387K and ittakes in $811K in revenue. However, personnel are not factored into the expense side. If we did something like Exeter where they estimate the amount of time personnel are on an ambulance call, you would probably find that the ambulance service is breaking even.
Should we have paramedics on every engine? That is part of the gold-plated service and one residents have to speak up on and let the council know.
Thank you BruceK ... real numbers! So if you put 4 paramedics on staff full time @ 100k each ... you cover the cost. Doesn't really matter if they sit on their duffs all day, they are covered.
Let's move on to another subject, so we can get the real numbers out there ...
BC how about starting a new post (mainly so folks don't have to dig deep to find a new topic) about the Town Transfer Station or the Health office. Let's see how thier costs/revenue fair!?!
The goal would be to continue this process in public, so folks really know where there money is spent.
I am paying the same taxes as everyone else in the town, yet I do not receive all the same 'perks'. I am expected to pay road maintainace on my so called private road, and the town council has refused to look at our petition which states that the road is in fact public. So you can say all you want but not everyone is happy with what they get for the taxes, and some of us are 'expected' to pay more. I just have one question for you Brian, "Why do you and the council REFUSE to hear our petition?" and WHY are we expected to pay the same taxes and get less????
very,
First off, we did recieve your petition and created a sub-commitee to report on all private roads.
No doubt this topic is a tough one at best. We alone are not in a unique situation here. Many towns have the same issues to deal with.
I do empithize with you on your point that you pay the same amount of taxes and don't get the same services.
The RSA's clearly spell out that we can't expend public funds on private roads.
And when appraising the value of ones home, classifaction of roads does not influence prices.
Again, this is a tough issue and hopefully it gets addressed at the next meeting when the sub-committee brings to full council
Brian,
Our problem seems to be the issue that the so-called sub-commitee did not address our petition at all, if they had the roads in question would have been accepted by perscription at the least, not noting the other proof given to them/you as the council, as you know we have been fighting this for years and has become very frustrating we feel as though when we ask questions we just get stared at never getting an answer, all we have ever asked for is a yes or no answer, and we have still not received that. Do you have any idea how it feels to be sitting on this side of the council when you feel your concerns are not met, regardless of all the work you have done, having councilers stare at you without saying a word for or against your case, that is if they even give you enough respect to listen to you. Thats just how we feel on this side.....
Very,
We'll talk more about the issue when it comes up at town meeting. But please understand that there is no dis-respect for anyone. I know there is some frustration but I for one never think I'm better than someone else and I treat all people with respect and I do listen.
Dear unhappy, the only way to solve your road issue is at the state level. Cote' is the 'king of the roads' so to speak and if he don't want 'em, the town won't take 'em. Take the right steps at the local level, but your fight will only be won at the state level. I don't know the details behind your petition, but the RSA's regarding roads taken by perscription are quite clear.
ex,
Perscription wasn't the only thing in our petition, RSA 674.40 was also there, the town installed public sewer lines, and the RSA clearly states in order for the town to autorize public sewer lines the roadway MUST be public, we have been asking for an answer to this RSA since October 2001, but the council REFUSES to look into it. The town put signage on the road, they paved the road and have repaired the road since anyone could remember before 1957 when my husband was born. There used to be cottages for rent down here for the public, with a sign at the end of the road encouraging them to come down, we included pictures with the petition. If the sub-committee or the council actually read the petition there would be no doubt that our road would have been accepted as a public way. So, if on the 20th the council refuses to at least look at the petition how do we go to the state level? Because our next option is taking the town to court, which actually means I get to pay a lawyer with our VERY hard earned savings, but also get to pay a lawyer out of our taxes, essentially wasting tax payers money for something so obvious.
Unhappy, the issue you face becomes even more difficult because the Town doesn't have an official street map (needs to be registered with County), so it is basically a Public Works/Planning Board decision. So if my memory serves me, you first go to PW ... appeal to PB ... appeal to Superior court (this is what I meant by state level). If PW/PB/SC agrees with your petition, you go to TC for acceptance of the roads (which they must give a decision, which can be appealed as well). In all cases you need every decision in writing. You also don't need a lawyer to take the town to court (sounds like you have all your ducks in a row on this one and their aren't many GOOD street lawyers out there that are not already tied to a town), although taxes will pay the towns fees. A word of caution thought ... be careful for what you wish for. If in fact the town takes the roads, they can immediately upgrade them to Class 5. Which means WIDER and there will be nothing you can do to stop it, so think about what a 32 foot wide road (with 10 foot utility easements on each side) would do to your neighborhood.
If I mis-spoke ... BC can correct me ... he has a long PB history.
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