Be careful what you read. You may interpret it the wrong way. Many authors want to "steer" you into thinking one way or another and when small snippets of information are left for someone not knowing the issues in depth as others do then sometimes people tend to jump to conclusions.
The Fire fighters contract that was recently turned down by a 4-3 vote last week has made top news in local papers. Some councilors are giving their reasons in more detail to the papers than others.
Lets look at some information from my standpoint.
#1) The council in the beginning of last year met with town administration to set some target perimeters for all the contracts including Fire. Understanding that the tax cap is very tight, we set some goals that the council could live with in a new contract and then charged the administration to negotiate with the Unions
#2) After many many months with Town and Fire Union talking, they come to agreement with the perimeters that we had requested. It was at that time that Administration came back to council to say that they had met our council targets and that Fire was looking into a 2 year contract.
#3) For some councilors to voice "new concerns" after the fact is "unfair at best" and disingenuous at the worst. The concerns that a certain councilor who ran to the Derry News in today's paper gave his reasons and he thinks the fireman in Derry have to many "perks" such as 10 weeks vacation time. Also that they only contribute 15% to health care when Londonderry pays 20% and that fireman hired before 2005 have a "lifetime" guarantee.
However, Councilors should of spelled this out at the very beginning of the talks,If this was a big issue now, why was it not then? We should not wait until the two sides have come to terms and then say they are not satisfied.
Now, please understand a couple of things here. This councilor wants all to think that these issues he doesn't like are issues that have never been discussed in prior contracts and that he is unsatisfied with the contract as presently offered. The fact of the matter is that these issues have already been in previous contracts many years ago. ( Don't get me wrong here, I think our Firemen and Women make a great wage and have great benefits) No doubt.
But lets look at this for a minute, because the issue Councilor Coyle brings up have been in older contracts, with or without a new contract, they still get their 10 weeks vacation, they still pay less in health care contributions than Londonderry.( actually the new contract makes them contribute more than without a contract).
The fact of the matter is moving forward into the future, contracts will have to be different then they are today. The tax cap will make these issues that way. But as we move forward, its the progress we make toward that day matters. You just can't change every aspect of a contract overnight. There has to be compromise and understanding. But to change the terms AFTER you set the guidelines and come to agreement is not the way to handle town matters. To make it sound different in the media is mis-leading.
I want to hear from you. What are your thoughts.
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35 comments:
So because (you claim) Coyle didn't voice his objections at the right time, he should have voted yes to a contract that would screw the taxpayers? Lucid as ever BC.
Also you don't seem to be disputing the facts of the incredible perks. I think you should be the one defending your vote. How many of your constituents have that sort of package. Employment for life... are you kidding me? (by the way that strikes me (excuse the pun) as illegal... binding Councils yet to be elected.
Brian,
The firefighters have the best benefits package in the entire state. You state in your blog that there has to be compromise. I do not consider providing lifetime employment to be a compromise but providing an even better benefit package that this town cannot afford.
The NHRS last fall ruled that the towns are now responsible for funding the medical subsidy. If this ruling holds up, Derry will likely be hit with a $1M assessment on top of the normal increases. That means the budget may have to be cut by over $1M next year. I do not believe that this money should come out of the unreserved fund balance. This means that employees would need to be cut. You cannot provide lifetime employment with such a huge liability hanging over this town.
Kevin Coyle has some nerve to talk about how much money a Derry Firefighter makes for his/her salery. Has anyone drove by Mr.Coyle's compound on N.shore Rd latly?? Ya several newer vehicals, very large home, a new large pool. Maybe he should take a look in the mirror, I wonder how much money his wife makes as Londonderry Police Officer, or how much he makes as Prosecuter for the town of Londonderry, talk about rapping the system. If he is so worried about what Londonderry is doing, then how about he packs up his shit and MOVE there!!! and he can take JanetFairbanks with him. Taxes Cant be to bad in Derry if he is living here and working in Londonderry.
anon 6:00,
I never said I thought Mr.Coyle could not vote No. I'm simply pointing out that these items have been in the contract many years ago. Mr. Coyle knows that. Why would he not of said something last year. Why spin the wheel of failure and go through the motions. That is my only point.
The lifetime piece is already there. It was when the East Derry Fire consolidated.
MR. BC,
I asked my boss for lifetime employment and he looked at me like i just craped a moose. He said go back to work before i pull a Donald Trump on you.
Good thing Mr. Swan did not have lifetime employment.The whole town would have disapered. TAXPAYERS LOOSE AGAIN.
You will NOT find "Lifetime Employment" anywhere in the contract. Those are Coyle's words, not the truth.
The Town council has a signed agreement separate from any bargaining unit contracts that contains a no layoff clause for some employees, not all of them. This was signed during the consolidation of the two fire departments and has no expiration date. Coyle must have missed this document when he was breaking the gag order set forth by the Town's legal counsel.
Does Coyle even know any of the Firefighters on personal level, probably not. So it would be true to say that he don’t know that most of them go to work for 24hrs at a time rest for maybe 5hrs of that, get of shift and run home to shower and kiss the family to only leave again for another 10+ hr day at another job. Come back home kiss the family goodnight, throw some food down and finally then go to sleep, only to wake up and start another 10 day. This cycle usually repeats itself all week long until the next 24 hour shift. Why do I know this you ask? Because this is my life, this is the career I chose. I may work 2- 24 hour shifts one week or I may work 3- 24hour shifts the next. One may ask why do you have to work so much? According to town councilor Kevin Coyle you make over $72,000.00 a year, that should be enough. But what Mr. Coyle doesn’t realize is because of this life I chose, because I love being a Fireman, and because of our shifts, my wife has to stay home with our small children fulltime because we cant afford to sent them to daycare so that she can work. So this year I made roughly $66,000.00. And if you should know all the facts that is roughly $710.00 weekly after taxes and insurance to raise a family of four, or about $2800.00 per month. That covers my mortgage, 1 vehicle payment, and 1 utility bill with nothing to spareand that’s about it. What ever I do for side work helps cover the cost of my daughters Preschool, food for the week, food for my next 2 shifts, gas, fuel oil for the home, and utilities. So yes I live pay check to pay check like most other people because I am overpaid Firefighter. I don’t complain, I love my career, this is what I chose to do. I work hard everyday for my family and the citizen of this town and I am tired of being treated like dirt from members of this council who don’t even know us! These people should walk a mile in my shoes before they judge some one.
It's Nick Arancio, again...
This site is always full of "inside" information. I appreciate it.
Firefighter, or if anyone else can answer me; Do the firefighters and police have life insurance and short/long term disability?
I hope so, and would like to see it added if not.
I would find the money. I bet there are plenty of places to cut without taking away basic services.
I work three 12 hour shifts, I made this change to free up my Tuesdays. Two of those shifts are 6 am to 6 pm, and the third is 6 pm to 6 am.
A quick google search shows 24 hours shifts are not unusual for firefighters. I would find it difficult.
Nick,
I'm happy you like this site.
The point is that Kevin Coyle is misleading the community portraying our Firefighters as money hungry people who just about a pay check. I encourage all members of the town to stop at a fire station in town and have a coffee with the guys, really find out what they are like and make your own determination. I would like Kevin Coyle to keep his comments to himself.
"I would like Kevin Coyle to keep his comments to himself." Hmmm, Anon 9:03 we will put you down as another defender of the First Amendment. Whether the firefighters are swell human beings or not has absolutely nothing to do with determining how much taxpayer money should go to pay them. Should we cut their pay if they don't offer us a coffee when we visit?
The firefighters have 1 problem and that is a few excessive components of their benefits package.
Mr. Coyle has 2 problems. The first is that he moved the ball in the negociation process. The second is his going public with the negociations. His problems highlight the fact that he cannot be trusted.
Lets talk about excessive, Firefighters have to under go years of training, in Fire, EMS, Hazmat, Ice rescue, water rescue, Trench collapse, building collapse, and much more. Most of these people have college degrees. These aren’t your typical office workers, lawyers, sale reps. But yet the town council and others complain about these firefighters. How many of the town councilors do you think have ever been to the scene of a Fire, or a medical emergency, a car accident, a hazardous material incident? Probably none of them. Heck at 11:00pm the council has to call it quits for the night because there tired and they need to get home to sleep and see there families. Could you imagine if the Fire Department closed at 11pm so people could rest, or go home, or imagine if the dispatchers got up and went home because he/she was tired. We as town pay these men and women to be there when we or our loved ones need them, so if you think their overpaid then call 911 several times a day. We pay the American government every day to keep are armed forces ready to go, should we cut that back on that money as well because were not always at war, despite current circumstances. My point is that these people give up a lot to have this career, they endure a lot of stressful situations, stress that most of us will never endure. They miss holidays, anniversary’s, birthdays, family gatherings, they even leave their families during storms and other disasters to take care of all of us. So I have no problem with their current contracts, I say we should all be thankful for these people and treat them with the respect that they deserve. Our Tax dollars are well spent on the professional men ad women. I want to know that when I dial 911 I am getting a professional Firefighter/Paramedic, Police Officers in 5 minuets or less.I have a family member that lives in the town of Sandown that has the same size house and as much land as I do (less than 1 acre), but pays only about $500.00 less a year in taxes and he receives nothing.
- A volunteer Fire Department with long response times
- An ambulance service that cover multiple towns and that relies on the town of Derry for backup
- A small part time Police department that relies on long mutual aid responses from other towns.
All the services that we receive in this town is the reason why I live in Derry and Not Sandown. This family member of mine has to commutes back to Derry every day and at 24 mile round trip at today’s gas prices is a lot more than the $500.00 a year savings in taxes. We have great services and great schools and a town council that wants to always cut the throats of the employees that make it so great.
MR. Coyle what type of contract do you and your wife have as town employees in Londonderry? If Derry pays so well then why do you work there rather then here? Aren’t you also a Member of a Union in Londonderry? Maybe you give up your union status or not vote at all on any other Union contracts. You have no right carrying any type of Union card. I agree that maybe you should pack your family and move over there.
HOW SOON WE FORGET:
I am already sick of hearing about the "lifetime employment" clause. The Derry Twon Council should reflect on the agreement with the East Derry Fire Precinct for consolidation. THE TOWN COUMCIL is the one that ok'd it at that time ......1.5 years later, a councilor doesn't agree with it ??? How should the members of the former east derry precinct feel after being assured if the consolidation happened, that they would have a "lifetime" no layoff clause. Now Mr. Coyle wants to take that away..How convienient.
The notion that the average salry of a fireifhgter is $72,000 in Derry is WRONG. Yes, they make that money in overtime due to understaffing of the department which causes overtime. Good for them for taking it. I am sure they make tough choices to not be home - to work that overtime. Mr. Coyle has painted the picture of the Derry Fire Departments "gloom and doom" of the contract with a very broad brush. He only highlights target areas, not telling the real truth.
I got a copy of the salaries fro mthe Town. The top base salries are 20-30 thousand less then quoted by Mr. Coyle.
If he wants to be so interested in how we compare to londonderry - he should move there.
Lets look at how many properties have been developed by Mr. Coyle, only to be sold to families with children - further taxing our school system while putting a handsome profit in HIS pocket.
Firefighters insurance buyout ???/ They should get 11,000 in money back,,,they are saving us a ton by NOT taking the insurance.....don't knock it Kevin, they may change their mind, then we'll all be on the hook.
Interesting note: Take a look at all the posting against Mr Coyle. Why are so many signed by anonynous writers AFRAID to sign their names?? Why is that.
Kevin from Derry,
You're absolutley right! Everyone on this blog should have the same transparency that you are using with your screen name.
Maybe as Mr. Coyle's chief defender you could tell us why he has spent the past few weeks bemoaning the firefighters contract while not offering so much as one solution. Perhaps he should put his crack legal skills to good use and take over the negotiations himself on a pro bono basis. He might find out that negotiating a union contract is not quite so easy as playing armchair quarterback.
Being a citizen of the town of Derry and a person who has been following this since the very begining, I would like to offer some insight.
Coyle says and continuously repeats that he is all for saving the residents of Derry some money in their taxes. Yet, from what I see, have read, and have heard, Mr. Coyle has continued to attack the 7% portion of a Derry tax payer's portion... the Fire Dept. When a councilor is elected to a position and one of his first words to the town administrator is "How are you going to cut positions on the Fire Dept?", you have to seriously consider his particular position on that subject. It is no surprise to me that Mr. Coyle has taken the position he has on the Fire Union's contract. Not that he was the only one involved since there were 3 other votes besides his, but one must question the influence of one who has nothing but negative things to say to the public about the Derry Fire Dept in general.
I do not know what sour grapes Mr. Coyle has with the Derry Fire Dept., but I'm sure those sour grapes do not make very good wine... and maybe that's why we have read so many things in the papers recently attributed to Mr. Coyle and very little attributed to the party with which he has so many issues with. That being the IAFF Local 4392, Who is taking the high road in this illegally public conundrum? Only the public... or maybe the lawyers may decide that.
Getting back to the actual contract for a minute, being a citizen of the town of Derry and actually reading the contract the IAFF Local 4392 is currently working under, one would have to assume that the Local was asking for something so far OUTSIDE the parameters of the current contract that Mr. Coyle and the rest would have no choice but to vote a resounding "NO!" I'm pretty sure that the committee that the town put together and the Local put together to negotiate this current contract had some guidlines they were going to try and work under. According to what I have read and seen here on this blog, those particular "parameters" may have been changed at the last minute in order to ensure the contract for the Local 4392 Firefighter's Union would be turned down. Anyone paying attention to that vote on the Firefighter's contract would be hard pressed to say anything other than how surprised most people were when the council ultimately voted it down. And I have to wonder why that was? Was it because the Local was just asking for to much? If that were the case, one would have to question the ground level parameters put in place before the negotiations began. Why waste all that time AND taxpayer's money negotiating a contract that the town council majority would not have grounds to agree with? If the town and Local were so far apart on issues, why were the two groups never stuck at impasse? Strange...
It's not a far stretch to imply that Mr. Coyle may have some personal issue with the Local 4392 union, the administration, or maybe the Firefighters themselves, but that is ONLY an implication made by myself based on the information I have been able to process as a citizen of this town. Paying the taxes I pay and living in this town that I feel offers myself and my family the best living conditions NH has to offer, I have to question the legitimacy and competence of a counselor who feels that a contract, negotiated in good faith under terms set forth BEFORE negotiations have started, is "Too good" for the citizens it intends to protect and serve.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'll GLADLY pay the extra $75 a year to ensure my family has the BEST protection it can have in case something happens. And $75 is about what the average person would save a year in their taxes if Mr. Coyle got his way and cut the local Fire Dept.'s manpower in order to "Save the Derry Taxpayer" some money. $75 a year is not worth the life of my children when the stairs are on fire and I can't get them out.... but maybe the Fire Dept CAN.
Do your reasearch and then do the thinking behind it. DON'T BELIEVE everything you read in the paper.
Just for the record kevin from derry never said he was Mr. Coyle's chief support. Im just a tax payer. As you well know Derry does'nt produce any goods or services which can be sold for revenue and profit in the free trade economy THUS relies on the dime of the taxpayer.
anon 9:03 I'm sure you would pay any price for the safety of your children as I would for mine. How much safer will they be if we pay the firefighters more? We could as a town pay them each $1 million dollars. Will we be really safe then? Your children would be much safer if you drove a large new Mercades (Department of Transportation has statistics proving that). Is that what you drive, if not why not?
Kevin from Derry,
Actually the town does produce goods and services for Revenue streams. ie.. recycled trash, ambulance service, outside police details. And in fact, most departments in town have revenue streams outside of general taxation. However not enough
Thanks BC for pointing out the departments in town that generates Revenue and offset expenses thus keeping taxes down. its a good day when you learn something new. Great site you have.
I think that it all comes down to doing something that no one wants to do. I don't want to fight fire or have drug overdosed person throwing up on me. I would assume that everyone who voted against the contract would jump at the chance to take the job. I would assume that Mr. Coyle is looking downsize the department from the sounds of things when he balks at the "lifetime" employment issue. People in the know have told me that all that is is that the FF's want to protect all of the people that worked there during the Derry/East Derry merge. I was also told that was already in the contract that they have. All the "perks" that people complain about are already there and are going to continue to be there even if the council never agrees to another contract. Lets move on and get this deal done! These people are part of a select group of town workers that do everything I have no interest in doing! Put out the fire, treat the sick/injured, plow the roads, pick up the trash, and shoot the guy breaking into my house and I'm a happy guy! To all: I learned about a cool feature from the towns website, the GIS mapping! If you use it, you can type in peoples names, or addresses and find out where and what property they own! Check it out, it very interesting!
If information is going to be distributed about the proposed firefighter's contract then the information should be correct. For example, some have claimed that firefighters get 11 weeks vacation. 11 weeks based on what comparision?
A firefighter with 7-11 years on the job earns 26 HOURS per month or 312 HOURS per year off. These totals must be divided by the number of hours in their normal workday, ie. 24. Therfore, they earn 1.08 days off per month or 13 days off per year. This total includes: vacation, sick, holiday, personal days, etc. Unreasonable? I don't think so. I, as a healthcare worker, earn 27 days off per year.
So, let's take this further. Typically, a firefighter works two 24 hours shifts per week for a total of 48 hours. (And no those additional eight hours are NOT paid at an overtime rate.) Therefore, a two week vacation would require 96 earned time hours. I, on the other hand, for the same amount of vacation would only need to use 80 hours.
Now let's take their 13 days off per year. They typically work 8 (24 hour) days per month. 13 days off equates to approximately 6.5 weeks, not 11 weeks. And if they worked in the private sector that would mean 3 weeks vacation, 8holidays, 3 personal days, and 6 sick days. And after 7 years in the same job that's not out of line.
So I ask you, if information as simple as this is being distorted, then what else is not being presented fairly?
A Quebec Firefighter is missing and presumed as a Line of Duty Death this morning after operating at a dwelling fire in Varennes, about 30 minutes drive north of Montreal.
The fire started around 2300 hours last night in the basement of the dwelling. The man and woman who lived in the home got out. As Firefighters were working, 3 members were trapped in the dwelling for a yet to be disclosed reason. Reports are that 2 were able to escape, but the 3rd was unable to get out or be rescued. There also may have been a collapse inside the house.
We just received unofficial word that the missing Firefighter remains have been located and removed. Additional info will be posted. Our condolences to all affected
As a Derry taxpayer I am glad some councilors are doing their work in keeping taxes low. Lifetime employment should not be guaranteed, there is no industry I know of that offers this. As people move out of town and population shrinks departments need the ability to shrink as well, just like in business. If the firemen are not happy with the contract they are free to leave and go to another town, another department. When I am not happy with my job I will do the same, in fact I have. My feelings are that we really do not need the fancy trucks, really all that is needed are rescue crews to remove people from harms way and then let the building burn, any remaining building that is saved from a fire is usually torn down anyways because of the extensive smoke and fire damage. Stop blaming councilors, I would never let a contract through that allows lifetime employment or 11 weeks of vacation, these are the things that make taxes go sky high.
Like it or not, the Council has already approved this, about 3 years ago. Get over it and move on.
These guys spend more time sitting on their fat arses then anything else...never mind the hours they spend asleep while on the clock! Get off the 911 high boys and be appreciative with the paycheck you receive. Where else can someone with just a high school education garner the pay and benefits these spoiled children receive????
Thomas Thorpe
Portsmouth, NH
THOMAS THORPE,
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE NEW TOWN ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE TOWN OF DERRY NH. NO OTHER STATEMENT ON THIS SITE HAS BEEN MORE ELEQUENTLY SAID.
Thomas Thorpe either wanted to be a firefighter or plays one Vol. Dept. It's okay Tom, I used to play with fire trucks when I was a little kid too!
I'm a firefighter in Derry. I have over 20 years in the departmnet. I remeber when I first started in the department. The pay was low and nobody wanted the job. Contrary to popular belief, we do not make what people think. My base slary as a supervisor is under 59,000.00. Now, I supervise people entering hazardous environments on a daily basis. I work 42 hours per week. Life as a firefighter, EMT or paramedic is not as rosey as the public may think. While the public sleeps we routinley deal with the less fortunate. Has anyone ever considered the average life expectancy of a firfighter after retirement. Do some research and check it out. Do you realize what we see every day. Death, dying, sick and injured people. We also pay taxes. We work nights, holidays, birthdays, etc. This job is not like an average job. I give everything I have each day. I put my life on the line on every response when drivers fail to take the time to set the cell phone down. I put my life on the line when a resident calls to say they have a fire in their house. I place my family at risk every day when I come home from a shift. Who knows what I have been exposed to in the course of the shift. I have worked hard for this community contrary to popular belief. For years I paid for my training. Derry has one of the worst policies on paying for training. Yet, Derry firefighters have some of the highest levels of training as compared to other FD's in the state. I was sent by the department to a bombing recognition training school and was charged vacation time when I got home. That cost me money and I never complained. The residenst of Derry benefited from that training. The benefits we receive have been negotiated for many years. Anyone has the ability to get the training and do this job. Yet, not just anyone can do this job. This job takes a special person and a special supportive family. Every day that I leave for work my wife and children have the realization that I may not come home. My wife has heard the pager go off in the night many times. She has heard the ambulance trasnporting a firefighter to the hospital. She has heard the incident commander call for an emergency evacuation at a building fire. My wife has received the cal that I have been injured. Oh, I was trying to save your property, or maybe even your wife or children. I have been hurt many times while trying to protect the lives and property of the residents of this community. I have the daily aches and pains of this job. I have the scars from being burned on this job. The fire union negotiated a contract under the ground rules agreed upon by the town. We negotiated in good faith. I will continue to respond to every call as it was a call to my own home. I will continue to put my life on the line each shift. I will continue to see things every shift that many of you cannot phathom. Yes, In little old Derry. I have never looked for sympathy from the public. I do not want any recognition for what I do as a firefighter. That is something that the public does when they feel it is required. I chose this job of my own free will. I have committed my life for this job and for the residents of this community. I appreciate and respect the vote taken on our contract. I still support the council, all of them. However, I do not feel the same respect and support from all memebers of the council and that is unfortunate.
Mr firefighter,
Maybe the right thing to do is turn the guy in that said the statement in question into the union or the council. That would be the right thing to do.
Everybody that still has a job is important to the community not just the fireman.Most of us {99%} do not get the handsome perks,10 week vacations and no layoff clauses.
The unions have sent countless jobs overseas.JUST MAYBE the town of Derry would like the unions to back off bit for the sake of the taxpayers.
You know , the people that live and pay realestate taxes in town.
Thomas Thorpe, just to clear things up, firefighters are not simply "high school graduates" as you ignorantly stated. They have to take years of courses in preparation for the job. It takes months of training and studying to pass the state tests to enter the firefighting profession. If you think you are such an informed citizen of Derry, maybe you should check your facts before you verbally trash the men and women who would save your life in an instant, without even giving it a second thought. If you think you are better than the firefighters that serve your town, maybe you should move. I'm sure your intelligence and education would be better appreciated elsewhere. It's funny that you use the term "spoiled children" when describing firefighters, as friends of mine in the profession have described seeing children being dragged by cars, mangled people having to be extracted from their cars using the jaws of life, and burn victims who have lost everything they own, if they even survive. How do you sleep at night? I suppose ignorance is bliss.
I was born and raised in Derry and moved away in 2003. I spent close to 8 years as a vol. with East Derry. I was there with all the turmoil about the merger. The town council handled it all wrong then and still can't get it right now. THe people of Derry are very lucky to have the hard working men and women of DFD working for them The EMS dept is among the leading inovaters in the Northeast. If I need an Ambulance to come to my house I will wait longer for help and that help will not be with a Paramedic like Derry. Even though the station is one mile from my house. IF my house catches on fire during the day I have a better chance of stealing the engine and putting it out myself. I knew these risks moving to the country. Your firefighters deserve a fair conract now. They can't even afford to live in Derry. They work hard for you. Ask yourself if you can look them in the counslers and say thank you if you ever need their help at 3am
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